Mike Wangsmo wanger at REDHAT.COM
Tue Jun 10 06:09:53 MDT 1997

Your message on: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:47:43 CDT
>        Hazing is a reminder that some people have not advanced much on the
>evolutionary scale.  It is a tradition that should be countered by
>concerned citizens.
>        The treatment of hazing at The Citadel on "60 Minutes" is
>unfortunately another reminder to the effect that an administration may
>choose to wink at such monkey business.
>Hazing is not needed to build character.  It is simply a form of cruelty.
>         Certain traditions can make sense, but hazing is hardly one of


While I agree that some forms of hazing are wrong, I tend to agree with most
forms of "initiation" to _clubs_.  The harder something is to get into, the
more cherished the membership becomes.  For example, the Marines that had
their flight wings beat into their chest when they were earned.  Yes this is
violent, but, it really builds a form of brotherhood between the members of
the elite group.  This is kind of like how brothers fight each other growing
up, but stand together against an outsider.

More to the point at the Citadel.  While some of the actions of the students
against blacks (ie the kid who got shot) was way out of line, we don't know
the whole story. I don't buy into the stuff that the students are becoming a
bunch of Nazi's.  I think the kids are being rebelious, not white
supremicists.  The reason that I believe this is because the highest ranking
student officer is a black student.  If the school was truly against
minorities, that would NEVER happen.

I suspect that there have been MANY white students that have been forced to
quit the Citadel because they didn't measure up to the standards held there.
The same sorts of things happen in all elite military groups.  I remember back
to boot camp in the Navy and how the Seal candidates were treated.  In order
to be sure that the Navy had the best men possible for that group, they
allowed all sorts of attacks on the recruits to weed out any one who could not
hack the elitism of the Seals.  That is just life.

Mike Wangsmo, QA Engineer
Red Hat Software, Inc.

"The only reason Bill Gates is alive today is because the unabomber never
   used Windows 95" -- Anonymous

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