The fur will fly now.

Ray Thomas raythomas101 at HOTMAIL.COM
Wed Jan 12 09:28:51 MST 2000


The problem with "becoming more vocal" about abortion is that the very
subject invites anger to those on both sides. It is such a "polarizing"
issue that neither side will admit that the other side has ANY room to talk,
and I've never been able to understand how people can get so exercised about
having the right to KILL their progeny if it is "inconvenient" to have them.

I feel that if you engage in activities that can lead to pregnancy, and it
does, you should accept responsibility for the result, not kill it.
Sometimes that responsibility is simply to have it and put it up for
adoption. It's all about accepting responsibility for your actions, which is
a basic Objectivist tenet.

I know that Ayn Rand thought abortion was OK, having made a "subjective"
decision that life did not begin until the child left the womb. This is one
of my main differences with her. To say it was a "subjective" decision is
true because it could not have been otherwise. I have made a similarly
subjective decision (the only kind I could have made about this subject)
that she was wrong. Life DOES begin a LOT earlier. Just how early, I don't

I believe that there ARE sometimes good, logical reasons to abort. Forcible
rape is one of them. But to use abortion as birth control is just wrong.
Especially when you wait until the last second and have to crush the child's
skull and suck its brains out to kill it (sorry for the imagery, but I think
we need to admit what abortion really is).

I believe that many people on the pro-abortion side of the issue (And I
don't use their "politically correct" words for each side. I'm not
"pro-life" per se, I'm "anti-abortion.") have had abortions in the past and
if abortion is proven to them to be wrong, they will have to live with that
wrong the rest of their lives. That may account for the strength of their
opposition to the "anti-abortion" position.

Having said that, I will not entertain arguments that attempt to "whittle"
my opinion down because, like most people concerning abortion, my opinion is
pretty much set and I don't believe I'm going to convince anyone otherwise,
nor are they going to convince me.

I have "opened up" so to speak, on this issue, only because this is a
somewhat "exclusive" List with people who, I feel, are more intelligent than
those on the many other Lists to which I subscribe. If I wrote what I have
written above on most of them, I'd have to change my email address and
probably buy a gun.

So that's where I am.


>From: Susan Correll <SusanCorrell at WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
>Reply-To: Open discussion of current events <RUSHTALK at>
>Subject: Re: The fur will fly now.
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:03:35 -0500
>Ok, I simply must redefine my position.  You all know by now that I am pro
>life.  The throw away children to whom I refer are no better off than those
>that were aborted.  In Rio, parents have kids at will, and when they turn 3
>or 4, they throw them to the streets to fend for themselves.  Many turn to
>crime, and the police have taken to shooting the kids to "save time and
>trouble."  I tell you, I cried when I heard this story.  Now, that being
>said.....  I do not believe in abortion, the morning after pill, the new
>drug combination they've taken to using for abortions, any of it.  I
>believe if you cannot keep your privates to yourself and become pregnant,
>you should be a grown up, and if you don't want to keep the child, give it
>up for adoption.  It seems so simple to me, I just don't understand what
>the big mystery is.  What are these women so afraid of? Losing their
>"rights"? What rights?  We have what God gave us.   The pain? I've had
>kidney stones and I've had 2 kids.  The kidney stone was infinitely more
>painful than either of my kids, and my first one was over 9 pounds.
>I think it's time that pro lifers become more vocal (non violently of
>course) and start talking about the risks, wrongs and evils of abortion
>more publicly.
> > From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at MINDSPRING.COM>
> > To: RUSHTALK at
> > Subject: Re: The fur will fly now.
> > Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 7:14 PM
> >
> >
> > At 11:36 AM 1/11/00 PST, you wrote:
> > >Susan:
> > >
> > >What about the "throw-away children" in the United States being used
> > >for the political purpose of controlling what is being taught them
> > >in school without opposition from parents?
> > >
> >
> > Worse, what about the throw-away children that have their brains
> > sucked out during birth?
> >
> > Someone, please help me on this. The politicans and media along with
> > millions of Americans are near rioting over a single child that is in
> > no known danger to his life because they want to win a political
> > battle with Castro. Yet not one of those people raise even an eyebrow
> > at the number of babies killed daily for convienence. Some how I
> > cannot reconcile the two postions.
> >
> > Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <>
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> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > Dennis Putnam                   Public Key can be obtained from:
> > Loganville, Ga.

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