[Rushtalk] Myth and Truth About Libertarianism

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Thu Sep 27 06:55:57 MDT 2012

OK. In any case you now know how I define it and use it and I know how
you define it and use it. Thus we both should understand each others

On 9/27/2012 8:22 AM, stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> My political science professors disagree with yours, Dennis
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>;
> *To: * Rushtalk Discussion List <rushtalk at csdco.com>;
> *Subject: * Re: [Rushtalk] Myth and Truth About Libertarianism
> *Sent: * Thu, Sep 27, 2012 3:41:12 AM
> On 9/26/2012 7:53 PM, Steven Laib wrote:
>> I think that one of the problems with part of this discussion is the
>> premise that the opposite of statism is anarchy.  This further
>> assumes that any government is "statist."  My understanding of
>> statism is that it envisions a state centered system such as state
>> socialism, communism, or any other authoritarian state centered
>> system that denies civil liberties and individual rights. 
> Incorrect. Political scientists describe statism as the belief that
> government should control economic or social policy or both to SOME
> extent. Note emphasis on "some." You are describing an extreme form
> while the founders envisioned a mild form. That is, only what is
> necessary, thus the premise of the Constitution of enumerated powers.
> This is precisely the opposite of anarchism.
>> A system of popular sovereignty is not, in my opinion, statist
>> because it places the citizen about the state or government.  Of
>> course that does not assure anyone that the system is self
>> maintaining, as we are seeing in practical application today.
> It still grants the government SOME control over economic and social
> policy thus it meets the definition of statism.
>> SDL
>> On 9/26/12 3:02 PM, Paf Dvorak wrote:
>>> At 01:03 PM 9/26/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>>>> At 12:48 PM 9/26/2012, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>>>>> Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with Paf, he is
>>>>> technically correct, using the proper definition of statism.
>>>>> Statism is essentially the opposite of anarchy. Therefore, other
>>>>> than those that want the Somalia model, we are all statists,
>>>>> including Ben.
>>> Yep, Dennis is correct: there are only two choices. Liberty &
>>> slavery and various degrees in between.
>>> Somalia is a country in turmoil. Various factions are vying to be
>>> the government...nobody is trying to build a libertarian free market
>>> in Somalia that I know of.
>>> As Dennis Jr suggested, I too don't get why you people keep bringing
>>> up Somalia as an example of why freedom is bad.
>>> But maybe one of you will fill in that blank for me.
>>>>          */What bakes my biscuits is his using the term as a
>>>> pejorative.........unbridled freedom carries with it a serious
>>>> responsibility. /*
>>> Statists are pro-state. Libertarian-anarchists favor no government.
>>> It seems your position is that the more "state" we can get the freer
>>> we'll all be and I simply disagree (as do most thinking people.) I
>>> know that the government that governs least will provide for the
>>> freest possible option.
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