[Rushtalk] Obama cares

Steven Laib stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net
Sun Feb 3 16:47:27 MST 2013


Roberts called it a tax for one purpose and not a tax for the other.  Not having read the law I don't know if the penalties are criminal or civil, nut I expect it is civil, at least for now.

SDL

Sent from my iPad


On Feb 3, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Tom Matiska <tom.matiska at att.net> wrote:

> 
>  What happens if the "fee" for Obamacare  or the "penalty" for not participating takes the form of a "tax"???    Is not paying your taxes criminal or civil??   .... Didn't  Roberts effectively rule it a tax?
>  
> Tom
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 2/3/13, Steven Laib <stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> From: Steven Laib <stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] Obama cares
> To: "Rushtalk Discussion List" <rushtalk at csdco.com>
> Date: Sunday, February 3, 2013, 11:13 AM
> 
> Hey Guys, 
> 
> 1)  Don't forget to distinguish between criminal and civil penalties.  
> 2)  You can't be criminally prosecuted for failure to pay a criminal penalty, 
>     BUT that doesn't mean that there cannot be other action.  
> 3) You can't be criminally prosecuted for failure to pay a civil penalty, but again, they
> can take other actions (liens, levies, garnishment) to collect.
> 
> SDL
> 
> From: Paf Dvorak <notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info>
> To: Rushtalk Discussion List <rushtalk at csdco.com> 
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 12:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] Obama cares
> 
> At 05:34 AM 2/2/2013 -0800, Tom Matiska wrote:
>> Previous paragraphs specify the fines/penalties are to be included when filing taxes. I can't find the proposed chapter B, sub chapter 68 referred to.
> 
> I can't either, but I'm still looking.
> 
>> The language seems to say the HHS Secretary can not file liens to collect the penalty,
> 
> It's a sure strange thing to put into a "law".
> 
>>  but I'm not sure that is the same as saying it wouldn't be business as usual when it comes time for the IRS to collect the "taxes" (*SCOTUS approved name for penalties) you owe.
>>  
>> Tom  
>>  
>>   
>> 
>> --- On Sat, 2/2/13, Paf Dvorak <notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info> wrote:
>> 
>> From: Paf Dvorak <notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info>
>> Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] Obama cares
>> To: Hale_Bobb at yahoogroups.com, rushtalk at csdco.com
>> Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013, 5:27 AM
>> 
>> I'm re-asking because nobody answered the first time.
>> Is this (in red below) correct?
>> If I refuse to pay "my fair share" will they not fine me or persecute me?
>> 
>> 
>> 26 U. S. C. §5000A(g)(2)
>> 
>> (g) Administration and procedure
>> (1) In general
>> The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.
>> (2) Special rules
>> Notwithstanding any other provision of law­
>> (A) Waiver of criminal penalties
>> In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
>> (B) Limitations on liens and levies
>> The Secretary shall not­
>> (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
>> (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.
>> I just changed the colors, nothing more. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5000A
>> 
>> Paf Dvorak
>> 
>> notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info 
>> 
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> 
> Paf Dvorak
> 
> notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info
> 
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