[Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Tue Jun 18 06:35:11 MDT 2013


There is a difference between excusing a act and understanding an act
based on the mores of that specific time period. I, for one, am not
excusing anything. Rather I am trying to relate the motivation for
certain events based on the mores of those involved. In life the
retrospectroscope is always perfect.

On 6/17/2013 8:23 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
> Maybe the origin was different, maybe it wasn't.  But that does not
> justify what it eventually grew into.  And the totality is my point. 
> We cannot excuse evil just because some people thought it was OK.
>
>  
>
> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com]
> *On Behalf Of *John A. Quayle
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 4:54 PM
> *To:* Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!
>
>  
>
> At 07:21 PM 6/17/2013, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="Boundary_(ID_E6M/9qA2NvcIFuMwHE5smw)"
> Content-language: en-us
>
> I agree John, burning people at the stake and threatening them with
> horrific torture because they had evidence that the earth moved around
> the sun is definitely OK.  AS a matter of fact, I think we should
> start that again today:  agree with the church or be tortured -- maybe
> to death.
>  
> But I am so darned confused:  if the Inquisition was so OK, why did
> the Holy Father apologize for it and claim that it was a gross mistake
> and miscarriage?
>
>
>          */It goes a lot deeper than that.......Muslims were trying to
> bankrupt the Church because the Church was the center of charity back
> then, not the government. You had to join a parish to qualify. Muslims
> were claiming to be Catholics. There were seven total. _SOME_ were
> over the top - yes and the Pope was right to decry them. However, the
> origin was a lot different than most people were taught.
>
>
> /*
>
> No.  The Inquisition was NOT OK.  It is not right to punish, torture,
> and murder people simply because they disagree -- even if you are Holy
> Mother Church.  Check out Jon Hus  (maybe it's Jan Hus), burned at the
> stake by the ecumenical council because he believed mass should be
> offered in the local language.  Definitely a killing offense if there
> ever was one.
>  
> *From:* rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
> [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
> <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>] *On Behalf Of *John A. Quayle
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 4:07 PM
> *To:* Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!
>  
> At 06:28 PM 6/17/2013, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="Boundary_(ID_QMJVGZBdxRjREHH7maAjOQ)"
> Content-language: en-us
>
> No.  That is the logic you're trying to force on me, and it ain't so. 
> If I were to follow through with your logic, then the Nazi's killing
> of millions is OK because they thought it was. Stalin's murdering of
> thousands or millions was Ok because he and his cronies thought it
> was.  The inquisition was OK because they thought it was. 
>
>          */The "Inquisition" _WAS_ okay. The Inquisition was a group
> of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic
> Church <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church?qsrc=3044> whose
> aim was to combat heresy
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Christian_heresy?qsrc=3044>. It started in
> 12th-century
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Christianity_in_the_12th_century?qsrc=3044>
> France <http://www.ask.com/wiki/France?qsrc=3044> to combat the spread
> of religious sectarianism, in particular the Cathars
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cathars?qsrc=3044> and the Waldensians
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Waldensians?qsrc=3044>. This Medieval
> Inquisition <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition?qsrc=3044>
> persisted into the 14th century, from the 1250s associated with the
> Dominican Order <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Dominican_Order?qsrc=3044>.
> In the early 14th century, two other movements attracted the attention
> of the Inquisition, the Knights Templar
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Knights_Templar?qsrc=3044> and the Beguines
> <http://www.ask.com/wiki/Beguines?qsrc=3044>.
>
>
> /*Etc. etc.
>  
> *From:* rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
> [<mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 5:27 AM
> *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!
>  
> It is only wrong because you are looking at through 20th century
> glasses. If you were brought up to believe it was OK, you would
> obviously not think it was wrong.
>
> On 6/16/2013 5:52 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
> Some things are just plain wrong.  Abortion and slavery come to mind. 
> Whether it is now, back then, or looked back upon 100 years from now. 
> Legal doesn't make it right -- then or now.
>  
> From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
> [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:31 AM
> To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!
>  
> Be realistic. How can one who grew up in the 20th century possibly
> understand the mores of those that grew up in the 18th century?
> On 6/14/2013 6:31 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>  
>  
>  
> Semantics. The Constitutional crisis was about state rights. Namely
> property. That the property was human beings is really irrelevant. The
> northern states also refused to return livestock that accompanied the
> slaves. Surely you would agree that much is indeed theft. You cannot
> hold 19th century morals to 21st century standards.
>  
> Yes we can -- and should.  Are we going to be satisfied 100 years from
> now looking back and saying -- well, abortion was legal, so it was
> OK?  I don't think so.  Slavery is wrong.  Period.  Always was, is,
> and always will be.  Legal doesn't make it right or moral.
>
> On 6/14/2013 11:31 AM, Tom Matiska wrote:
> Add that to my point.  The whole of the "State's rights'" debate was
> centered on the wrongs of slavery.
> Tom
> --- On Fri, 6/14/13, Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>
> <mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net> <mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] Happy Death-by-Government Day!
> To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013, 8:25 AM
> Not quite. Slaves were considered property. When slaves escaped to the
> north the owners demanded return of their property and some refused.
> That was the trigger point at which time the southern states demanded
> their rights as states. There was nothing in the Constitution that
> granted the federal government the power to regulate private property
> between states, nor does such exist today. The federal authorities
> refused to facilitate the return of property so the south decided to
> secede. If the war was strictly about slavery, why did it takes 2
> years of war before Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation?
> On 6/14/2013 5:55 AM, Tom Matiska wrote:
>
> --- On Thu, 6/13/13, John A. Quayle <blueoval57 at verizon.net>
> </mc/compose?to=blueoval57 at verizon.htm> wrote:
>
>
>  
>         Actually, Tom......it was about State's Rights, not slavery!
> The right of states to allow slavery,  the right to expand slavery
> westward to new states, , and the right of states to secede over
> slavery pretty much covers all the state's rights discussions of the era.
> Tom
>
>
>
>
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