[Rushtalk] "Scary Obituary"

John Nebel john.nebel at csdco.com
Wed Mar 13 10:52:00 MDT 2013

Plato's "The Republic" is a good source on Athenian thinking, however, 
the Athenian system was a directly participatory democracy of mostly 
landowners or those who fought to defend the city.  The Greek title of 
the book is Πολιτεια which refers to a political entity, a polis such as 
Athens, not a republic in the later sense.  The misnomer has stuck.

Plato did reason in around 400BC that a democracy degenerates into a 
tyranny as part of a cycle.

The early Roman system was republican, Polybius wrote in around 170BC 
that it was the only stable form of government, he had studied Plato and 
knew the latter's conclusions.

If anything, our Republic followed the Roman model.

Judging from the Wikipedia article about him, Tytler knew his classics 
and would not have referred to ancient Athens as a republic.


On 3/13/13 6:57 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Although I have oft referenced the these stages of civilization, the
> attribution is mostly myth. According to Snopes:
> The "Alexander Tyler" quoted at the head of the article is actually Lord
> Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler
> (http://www.electricscotland.com/history/men/tytler_alexander.htm), a
> Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s
> and early 1800s.  However, there is no record of a Tytler's having
> authored a work entitled "The Fall of the Athenian Republic" ("The
> Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic"), and the quoted material
> attributed to him above is likely apocryphal.
> Wherever this came from, however, it certainly is accurate.
> On 3/12/2013 7:21 PM, John A. Quayle wrote:
>>   *Scary Obituary:*
>>   * Posted by <??.htm>Frank E
>>     <http://patriotaction.net/profile/FrankE>on March 12, 2013 at
>>     11:43am in <??.htm> General, Town Hall
>>     <http://patriotaction.net/forum/categories/general-town-hall/listForCategory>
>>   * View Discussions
>>     <http://patriotaction.net/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=30bpm14h1as71>
>> *
>> Scary Obituary:
>> In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
>> University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the
>> Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always
>> temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent
>> form of government. A democracy will continue
>> <http://patriotaction.net/forum/topic/show?id=2600775%3ATopic%3A6140364&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic#>
>> to exist up until
>> the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous
>> gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
>> always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from
>> the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
>> collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a
>> dictatorship."
>> "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
>> beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
>> years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
>> From bondage to spiritual faith;
>> From spiritual faith to great courage;
>> From courage to liberty;
>> From liberty to abundance;
>> From abundance to complacency;
>> From complacency to apathy;
>> From apathy to dependence;
>> From dependence back into bondage."
>> The Obituary follows:
>> Born 1776, Died 2012
>> It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
>> Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University
>> <http://patriotaction.net/forum/topic/show?id=2600775%3ATopic%3A6140364&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic#>
>> School of Law in
>> St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning
>> the last Presidential election:
>> Number of States won by: Obama-19; Romney-29.
>> Square miles of land won by: Obama-580,000; Romney-2,427,000.
>> Population of counties won by: Obama-127 million; Romney-143 million.
>> Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama-13.2;
>> Romney-2.1.
>> Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
>> Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens
>> of the country.
>> Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low
>> income tenements and living off various forms of government
>> welfare..."
>> Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
>> 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
>> democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
>> already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
>> If Congress grants
>> <http://patriotaction.net/forum/topic/show?id=2600775%3ATopic%3A6140364&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic#>
>> amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
>> criminal invaders called illegals - and they vote - then we can say
>> goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
>> If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.
>> If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how
>> much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our
>> freedom..
>> *
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