[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Stephen A. Frye s.frye at verizon.net
Mon May 19 07:28:26 MDT 2014

I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly educated.  Pure
and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and there are a myriad of
others.  Education is the one commodity in the U.S. for which we all strive
to get the least for our money.


How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read from
cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students use.  Every word;
every page.  Please, take one of the common core math books spec'd by
California and point me to a page with unadulterated indoctrination.


What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the class, and the


It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do it.  But I
am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real occurrences.  Not "everybody
knows" or " it's a known fact".


I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In reality,
the European countries have a far denser population, and they are just as
diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, blacks, pinks, whites,
purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, middle speed kids.  What's the
point of your question?  And for an answer, those kids come out of the
educational systems better educated than our kids.  And, as I wrote, there
are a myriad of reasons for that.  One of them is that they remove all of
the political in-fighting and finger pointing and name calling, and they set
rigid standards for the kids, and demand extremely advanced exams like the
abitur for graduation and admission to universities.


I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation, need to
stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS long as we are
indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing, we'll have what we have
now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.


So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come from, and
piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as under educated) should
be picking the curriculum, or we can try to do something positive.  I choose
the latter.


From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!


I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is as
diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? Which European
country has equivalent teacher union power that controls education for the
express purpose of benefiting it leadership through increased membership
(forced or other wise) by controlling the federal government? You want to
remove politics and focus on the issues which is a laudable goal. How do you
do that when the education system is entirely controlled by politics and the
local school boards have virtually no say in the curriculum?

Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled by 2
states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas and California.
Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while California has embraced it.
Georgia has regrettably accepted Common Core (hopefully that will change in
the next legislative session but we are stuck with it for 1 year at least)
therefore, it has no choice but to buy the books accepted by CA and they are
unadulterated indoctrination Common Core crap. So even if Common Core is
rejected, GA taxpayers are stuck with the CA crap or will have to spend
millions to get new books while the current ones are only 1 year old.

On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western European
educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed level, and those
countries are leaving us in the dust as far as scientific education is


From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Matiska
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!


Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my time nor did
its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school years.  What to teach and
how to teach it was discussed at local school board and PTA meetings, not
dictated from above. Tom   




From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>
To: rushtalk at csdco.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!


As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion has
nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem with it is
more intrusion from the federal government. When the US led the world in
education was when the local school districts had the most control. As an
aside, I've also read the history requirements. It is pure unadulterated,
progressive indoctrination by way of revised history.

On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.


The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.


From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!


I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core
teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math question one
runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids how to think...or another
way to think.

At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

Content-type: multipart/alternative;
Content-language: en-us

I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but only because
the approach to teaching/learning is different.  Different does not
automatically make it bad.
Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math discreetly:  algebra,
geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe doesn't do that.  They teach
mathematical concepts the encompass all of those areas and slowly and
steadily move to more and more difficult concepts.
When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them juniors,
they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American peers.  Most of them can
move straight into AP Calculus, and still encounter little new material.
Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took the Common
Core practice tests.  The American kids were all complaining they were the
hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our students told us they were doing
that math in the 7th and 8th grades.
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
<mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com> ] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Cc: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
My State (IN.) is dropping it.  
On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle" <blueoval57 at verizon.net
> writes:

Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college students.
Take a look:



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Paf Dvorak 

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