[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Mon May 19 08:35:03 MDT 2014


Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been able to
read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one example I've read:

Problem:

32-12 = ?

Common Core Solution:

32 - _3_ = 29
32 - _4_ = 28
32 - _5_ = 27
32 - _8_ = 22
        20

You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather than
politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear your
proposal to address the issues.

On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
> I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly educated. 
> Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and there are a
> myriad of others.  Education is the one commodity in the U.S. for
> which we all strive to get the least for our money.
>
>  
>
> How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read
> from cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students use. 
> Every word; every page.  Please, take one of the common core math
> books spec'd by California and point me to a page with unadulterated
> indoctrination.
>
>  
>
> What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the class,
> and the teacher.
>
>  
>
> It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do it. 
> But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real occurrences.  Not
> "everybody knows" or " it's a known fact".
>
>  
>
> I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In
> reality, the European countries have a far denser population, and they
> are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, blacks,
> pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, middle speed
> kids.  What's the point of your question?  And for an answer, those
> kids come out of the educational systems better educated than our
> kids.  And, as I wrote, there are a myriad of reasons for that.  One
> of them is that they remove all of the political in-fighting and
> finger pointing and name calling, and they set rigid standards for the
> kids, and demand extremely advanced exams like the abitur for
> graduation and admission to universities.
>
>  
>
> I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation,
> need to stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS
> long as we are indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing,
> we'll have what we have now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.
>
>  
>
> So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come from,
> and piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as under
> educated) should be picking the curriculum, or we can try to do
> something positive.  I choose the latter.
>
>  
>
> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
> *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>  
>
> I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is as
> diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? Which
> European country has equivalent teacher union power that controls
> education for the express purpose of benefiting it leadership through
> increased membership (forced or other wise) by controlling the federal
> government? You want to remove politics and focus on the issues which
> is a laudable goal. How do you do that when the education system is
> entirely controlled by politics and the local school boards have
> virtually no say in the curriculum?
>
> Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled by 2
> states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas and
> California. Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while California
> has embraced it. Georgia has regrettably accepted Common Core
> (hopefully that will change in the next legislative session but we are
> stuck with it for 1 year at least) therefore, it has no choice but to
> buy the books accepted by CA and they are unadulterated indoctrination
> Common Core crap. So even if Common Core is rejected, GA taxpayers are
> stuck with the CA crap or will have to spend millions to get new books
> while the current ones are only 1 year old.
>
> On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>     While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western
>     European educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed
>     level, and those countries are leaving us in the dust as far as
>     scientific education is concerned.
>
>      
>
>     *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Matiska
>     *Sent:* Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
>     *To:* Rushtalk Discussion List
>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>      
>
>     Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my
>     time nor did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school
>     years.  What to teach and how to teach it was discussed at local
>     school board and PTA meetings, not dictated from above. Tom  
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net <mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>>
>     *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>      
>
>     As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion
>     has nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem
>     with it is more intrusion from the federal government. When the US
>     led the world in education was when the local school districts had
>     the most control. As an aside, I've also read the history
>     requirements. It is pure unadulterated, progressive indoctrination
>     by way of revised history.
>
>     On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>     All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
>
>      
>
>     The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.
>
>      
>
>     *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Paf Dvorak
>     *Sent:* Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
>     *To:* Rushtalk Discussion List
>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>      
>
>     I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core
>     teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math
>     question one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids
>     how to think...or another way to think.
>
>
>
>
>
>     At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>     Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0705_01CF719B.F2F00700"
>     Content-language: en-us
>
>     I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but
>     only because the approach to teaching/learning is different. 
>     Different does not automatically make it bad.
>      
>     Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math discreetly: 
>     algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe doesn't do
>     that.  They teach mathematical concepts the encompass all of those
>     areas and slowly and steadily move to more and more difficult
>     concepts.
>      
>     When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them
>     juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American peers. 
>     Most of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and still
>     encounter little new material.
>      
>     Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took
>     the Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all
>     complaining they were the hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our
>     students told us they were doing that math in the 7^th and 8^th
>     grades.
>      
>     *From:* rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bernard L Willis
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
>     *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>     *Cc:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>      
>     My State (IN.) is dropping it. 
>      
>     BW
>      
>     On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle"
>     <blueoval57 at verizon.net <mailto:blueoval57 at verizon.net> > writes:
>
>     Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college
>     students. Take a look:
>
>             
>     http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/
>
>
>      
>
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>      
>
>
>
>     Paf Dvorak
>
>
>
>
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>
>      
>
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>      
>
>
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>
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