[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Paf Dvorak notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info
Tue May 20 09:27:14 MDT 2014


I find it sadly amusing that you people (conservatives) are left once 
again to try to fix what the progressives have destroyed.
And are too cowed by the thought of not being popular 
(elected/reelected) to actually make the changes needed to fix the 
communistic public school system.
Why are conservatives seemingly so strong toward self-actualization, 
yet so timid when it comes to doing what must be done?
Is there a one of you who doesn't recognize the 10th plank of the 
Communist Manifesto in our public school system?

Other than tearing it down and starting over, please list all the 
times and ways communism has ever been fixed.




At 06:33 PM 5/19/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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>If we wait for perfect, nothing will ever happen.  And I truly doubt 
>the country will be less safe if we happen to find a better way to teach math.
>
>From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] 
>On Behalf Of John A. Quayle
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:09 PM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>At 11:01 AM 5/19/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
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>OK.  So you haven't actually seen the book with the unadulterated 
>indoctrination.  I am not surprised.
>
>My proposal, well, maybe we could just keep going the way we 
>are.  We can sit back and whine, moan, criticize, point fingers, 
>accuse, call names, etc.  That seems to be working really well for most people.
>
>Or maybe we could try to stop all of that and really establish an 
>educational system that might work better than the disaster we 
>have.  Maybe we should really look for a good answer instead of 
>slamming every effort that gets made simply because it comes from 
>someone with different political views.
>
>Liberals, traditionalists, progressives, conservatives, fribbles, 
>frabbles and bedolfers are all equally guilty.  And as long as we 
>continue to behave the way we are, we will continue to fall farther 
>and farther behind our world counterparts.
>
>Our sitting back on our laurels and whining and pissing and moaning 
>and accusing gets us nowhere.  Actually, it's moving us 
>backwards.  Maybe it's time for some new attitudes and 
>actions.  While common core is definitely far from perfect, at least 
>somebody is willing to try something.
>
>          Stephen, "trying something" is what we get when citizens 
> howl for "safety" from the government and the end result is a loss 
> of our rights under the guise of "doing something."
>
>          I'd druther somebody PERFECT a lesson plan FIRST before 
> trying to foist gibberish on young skulls full of mush. You may 
> differ and that's your right.
>
>
>John Q.
>
>
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:35 AM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been able 
>to read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one example I've read:
>
>Problem:
>
>32-12 = ?
>
>Common Core Solution:
>
>32 - 3 = 29
>32 - 4 = 28
>32 - 5 = 27
>32 - 8 = 22
>         20
>
>You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather than 
>politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear your 
>proposal to address the issues.
>
>On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly 
>educated.  Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and 
>there are a myriad of others.  Education is the one commodity in the 
>U.S. for which we all strive to get the least for our money.
>
>How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read 
>from cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students 
>use.  Every word; every page.  Please, take one of the common core 
>math books spec'd by California and point me to a page with 
>unadulterated indoctrination.
>
>What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the class, 
>and the teacher.
>
>It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do 
>it.  But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real 
>occurrences.  Not "everybody knows" or " it's a known fact".
>
>I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In 
>reality, the European countries have a far denser population, and 
>they are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, 
>blacks, pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, 
>middle speed kids.  What's the point of your question?  And for an 
>answer, those kids come out of the educational systems better 
>educated than our kids.  And, as I wrote, there are a myriad of 
>reasons for that.  One of them is that they remove all of the 
>political in-fighting and finger pointing and name calling, and they 
>set rigid standards for the kids, and demand extremely advanced 
>exams like the abitur for graduation and admission to universities.
>
>I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation, 
>need to stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS 
>long as we are indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing, 
>we'll have what we have now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.
>
>So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come from, 
>and piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as under 
>educated) should be picking the curriculum, or we can try to do 
>something positive.  I choose the latter.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is 
>as diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? 
>Which European country has equivalent teacher union power that 
>controls education for the express purpose of benefiting it 
>leadership through increased membership (forced or other wise) by 
>controlling the federal government? You want to remove politics and 
>focus on the issues which is a laudable goal. How do you do that 
>when the education system is entirely controlled by politics and the 
>local school boards have virtually no say in the curriculum?
>Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled by 
>2 states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas and 
>California. Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while California 
>has embraced it. Georgia has regrettably accepted Common Core 
>(hopefully that will change in the next legislative session but we 
>are stuck with it for 1 year at least) therefore, it has no choice 
>but to buy the books accepted by CA and they are unadulterated 
>indoctrination Common Core crap. So even if Common Core is rejected, 
>GA taxpayers are stuck with the CA crap or will have to spend 
>millions to get new books while the current ones are only 1 year old.
>On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western European 
>educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed level, and 
>those countries are leaving us in the dust as far as scientific 
>education is concerned.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Tom Matiska
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my time 
>nor did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school 
>years.  What to teach and how to teach it was discussed at local 
>school board and PTA meetings, not dictated from above. Tom
>
>
>
>From: Dennis Putnam <<mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>dap1 at bellsouth.net>
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion 
>has nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem 
>with it is more intrusion from the federal government. When the US 
>led the world in education was when the local school districts had 
>the most control. As an aside, I've also read the history 
>requirements. It is pure unadulterated, progressive indoctrination 
>by way of revised history.
>On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
>
>The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core 
>teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math 
>question one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids how 
>to think...or another way to think.
>
>
>
>
>At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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>I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but only 
>because the approach to teaching/learning is different.  Different 
>does not automatically make it bad.
>
>Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math 
>discreetly:  algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe 
>doesn't do that.  They teach mathematical concepts the encompass all 
>of those areas and slowly and steadily move to more and more 
>difficult concepts.
>
>When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them 
>juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American 
>peers.  Most of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and still 
>encounter little new material.
>
>Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took 
>the Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all 
>complaining they were the hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our 
>students told us they were doing that math in the 7th and 8th grades.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
>Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Cc: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>My State (IN.) is dropping it.
>
>BW
>
>On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle" 
><<mailto:blueoval57 at verizon.net>blueoval57 at verizon.net > writes:
>Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college 
>students. Take a look:
> 
><http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/>http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/ 
>
>
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>Paf Dvorak
>
>
>
>
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Paf Dvorak  
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