[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Paf Dvorak notmyname at thatswaytoomuch.info
Tue May 20 10:23:47 MDT 2014


At 10:23 PM 5/19/2014 -0400, John A. Quayle wrote:
>At 09:33 PM 5/19/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="Boundary_(ID_+awRd5QFe5CQWCA3xfzyVg)"
>>Content-language: en-us
>>
>>If we wait for perfect, nothing will ever happen. And I truly doubt 
>>the country will be less safe if we happen to find a better way to teach math.
>
>         Sorry, but both of your contentions are totally erroneous! 
> Doing ANYTHING in a panic leads to misery. The country's safety has 
> NOTHING to do with math - who knows it, what methods, who's 
> teaching it......whatever. Who controls the levers and switches of 
> power and the economy are of paramount importance to our safety! 
> Math?!? Meh................

If "we" want to help "our" children, "we" must totally and completely 
reject collectivism and rid society of it entirely.
I won't hold my breath! Collectivism is too deeply engrained in our 
national psyche to reject it.
We are all communists now.


>>
>>From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [ 
>>mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of John A. Quayle
>>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:09 PM
>>To: Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>At 11:01 AM 5/19/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>
>>Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="Boundary_(ID_LD1ZHjVJGc7QyZHSnCypFQ)"
>>Content-language: en-us
>>
>>OK.  So you haven't actually seen the book with the unadulterated 
>>indoctrination.  I am not surprised.
>>
>>My proposal, well, maybe we could just keep going the way we 
>>are.  We can sit back and whine, moan, criticize, point fingers, 
>>accuse, call names, etc.  That seems to be working really well for most people.
>>
>>Or maybe we could try to stop all of that and really establish an 
>>educational system that might work better than the disaster we 
>>have.  Maybe we should really look for a good answer instead of 
>>slamming every effort that gets made simply because it comes from 
>>someone with different political views.
>>
>>Liberals, traditionalists, progressives, conservatives, fribbles, 
>>frabbles and bedolfers are all equally guilty.  And as long as we 
>>continue to behave the way we are, we will continue to fall farther 
>>and farther behind our world counterparts.
>>
>>Our sitting back on our laurels and whining and pissing and moaning 
>>and accusing gets us nowhere.  Actually, it's moving us 
>>backwards.  Maybe it's time for some new attitudes and 
>>actions.  While common core is definitely far from perfect, at 
>>least somebody is willing to try something.
>>
>>          Stephen, "trying something" is what we get when citizens 
>> howl for "safety" from the government and the end result is a loss 
>> of our rights under the guise of "doing something."
>>
>>          I'd druther somebody PERFECT a lesson plan FIRST before 
>> trying to foist gibberish on young skulls full of mush. You may 
>> differ and that's your right.
>>
>>
>>John Q.
>>
>>
>>
>>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:35 AM
>>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been able 
>>to read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one example I've read:
>>
>>Problem:
>>
>>32-12 = ?
>>
>>Common Core Solution:
>>
>>32 - 3 = 29
>>32 - 4 = 28
>>32 - 5 = 27
>>32 - 8 = 22
>>         20
>>
>>You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather than 
>>politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear your 
>>proposal to address the issues.
>>
>>On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly 
>>educated.  Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and 
>>there are a myriad of others.  Education is the one commodity in 
>>the U.S. for which we all strive to get the least for our money.
>>
>>How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read 
>>from cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students 
>>use.  Every word; every page.  Please, take one of the common core 
>>math books spec'd by California and point me to a page with 
>>unadulterated indoctrination.
>>
>>What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the 
>>class, and the teacher.
>>
>>It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do 
>>it.  But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real 
>>occurrences.  Not "everybody knows" or " it's a known fact".
>>
>>I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In 
>>reality, the European countries have a far denser population, and 
>>they are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, 
>>blacks, pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, 
>>middle speed kids.  What's the point of your question?  And for an 
>>answer, those kids come out of the educational systems better 
>>educated than our kids.  And, as I wrote, there are a myriad of 
>>reasons for that.  One of them is that they remove all of the 
>>political in-fighting and finger pointing and name calling, and 
>>they set rigid standards for the kids, and demand extremely 
>>advanced exams like the abitur for graduation and admission to universities.
>>
>>I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation, 
>>need to stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS 
>>long as we are indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing, 
>>we'll have what we have now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.
>>
>>So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come 
>>from, and piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as 
>>under educated) should be picking the curriculum, or we can try to 
>>do something positive.  I choose the latter.
>>
>>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
>>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is 
>>as diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? 
>>Which European country has equivalent teacher union power that 
>>controls education for the express purpose of benefiting it 
>>leadership through increased membership (forced or other wise) by 
>>controlling the federal government? You want to remove politics and 
>>focus on the issues which is a laudable goal. How do you do that 
>>when the education system is entirely controlled by politics and 
>>the local school boards have virtually no say in the curriculum?
>>Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled 
>>by 2 states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas 
>>and California. Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while 
>>California has embraced it. Georgia has regrettably accepted Common 
>>Core (hopefully that will change in the next legislative session 
>>but we are stuck with it for 1 year at least) therefore, it has no 
>>choice but to buy the books accepted by CA and they are 
>>unadulterated indoctrination Common Core crap. So even if Common 
>>Core is rejected, GA taxpayers are stuck with the CA crap or will 
>>have to spend millions to get new books while the current ones are 
>>only 1 year old.
>>On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western 
>>European educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed 
>>level, and those countries are leaving us in the dust as far as 
>>scientific education is concerned.
>>
>>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Tom Matiska
>>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
>>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my time 
>>nor did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school 
>>years.  What to teach and how to teach it was discussed at local 
>>school board and PTA meetings, not dictated from above. Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Dennis Putnam <<mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>dap1 at bellsouth.net>
>>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion 
>>has nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem 
>>with it is more intrusion from the federal government. When the US 
>>led the world in education was when the local school districts had 
>>the most control. As an aside, I've also read the history 
>>requirements. It is pure unadulterated, progressive indoctrination 
>>by way of revised history.
>>On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
>>
>>The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.
>>
>>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
>>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
>>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core 
>>teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math 
>>question one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids how 
>>to think...or another way to think.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>>          boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0705_01CF719B.F2F00700"
>>Content-language: en-us
>>I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but only 
>>because the approach to teaching/learning is different.  Different 
>>does not automatically make it bad.
>>
>>Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math 
>>discreetly:  algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe 
>>doesn't do that.  They teach mathematical concepts the encompass 
>>all of those areas and slowly and steadily move to more and more 
>>difficult concepts.
>>
>>When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them 
>>juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American 
>>peers.  Most of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and still 
>>encounter little new material.
>>
>>Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took 
>>the Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all 
>>complaining they were the hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our 
>>students told us they were doing that math in the 7th and 8th grades.
>>
>>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
>>Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
>>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>>Cc: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>>
>>My State (IN.) is dropping it.
>>
>>BW
>>
>>On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle" 
>><<mailto:blueoval57 at verizon.net>blueoval57 at verizon.net > writes:
>>Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college 
>>students. Take a look:
>> 
>><http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/>http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/ 
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rushtalk mailing list
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>
>>
>>Paf Dvorak
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>Rushtalk mailing
>>
>>list
>>
>>
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rushtalk mailing list
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>Rushtalk mailing
>>
>>list
>>
>>
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>Rushtalk mailing
>>
>>list
>>
>>
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rushtalk mailing list
>><mailto:Rushtalk at csdco.com>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rushtalk mailing list
>>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk
>_______________________________________________
>Rushtalk mailing list
>Rushtalk at csdco.com
>http://kalos.csdco.com/mailman/listinfo/rushtalk



Paf Dvorak  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://kalos.csdco.com/pipermail/rushtalk/attachments/20140520/5e55bfc1/attachment-0001.html 


More information about the Rushtalk mailing list