[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Thu May 22 06:57:57 MDT 2014


This is beyond the pale. I have Carl on ignore but this is sufficient to
warrant banning. Consider this the first and last warning.

*From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com]
*On Behalf Of *Paf Dvorak
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:07 PM
*To:* Rushtalk Discussion List
*Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!

 

I'm pretty sure your family members died to get away from you.


At 05:43 PM 5/20/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

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There is FAR more data to support the value than there is against it. 
There are always people who are against everything.  Besides that, I
don't really care what you think.  I have had immediate family die of
cancer.  You're fortunate to have not endured that.  Don't slam those
who have.  My mother suffered through a colostomy and inhuman pain. 
Your expressed sentiments  are callous, thoughtless, insulting, and
unsolicited.  And yes, I take it very personally.


I'm not "slamming" anyone! Fuck you man and thanks for your sympathies
you cock sucking piece of shit!
Unsubscribe me from this fucking list you motherfucking douchenozzels!
No wait I know how.


*From:* rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Paf Dvorak
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:54 AM
*To:* Rushtalk Discussion List
*Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
My father died at 72 from atherosclerosis (pneumonia) in '82 and my
mother died of old age (87) and failure to thrive (pneumonia) on the
15th of this month (5 days ago, not at all unexpectedly).

None of our immediate family has/had cancer.

Not to even mention how inaccurate and dangerous the procedure
(colonoscopy) is.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3665199.ece
http://www.gutsense.org/crc/crc_side_effects.html
http://www.reportingonhealth.org/2013/10/13/only-accident-fatal-colonoscopy-leaves-family-stunned-and-unpaid

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/3/230.long


At 12:22 PM 5/19/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

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My mom died of colon cancer -- young, and my 49 year-old baby brother
just got diagnosed with advanced.  He'll see 50 in July, but not 51.  My
dad died of heart attack in early 60's, and my other baby brother died
of a stroke.  Never occurred to me I would survive my whole family.   I
am truly blessed.  I am really healthy.  I know that could turn on a
dime, but I try (not always successfully) to remember my blessings every
day.  But it put a scare in me, and the doc agreed to do the check.  I
can drink almost a half-gallon at once, but it's the damned taste right
after the last swallow that makes me want to gag.
 
Like Dave Barry wrote -- 4 liters is approximately 254 gallons.
 
And the job.  Well, it works!  My wife is picking me up in 45 minutes to
drive to the hospital.
 
*From:* rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com> [
mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
*Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2014 11:18 AM
*To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Colonscopy coming up? You have my sympathy. I didn't find it that bad
tasting when I added the lemon flavoring but drinking so much of it over
such a short time was the challenge. Not to mention the job it is
designed to do.

On 5/19/2014 1:53 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
Anybody know what's in Gavilyte?  Couldn't they make it taste better?
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:43 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
"We" are not rejecting anything out of hand. I am rejecting something
resulting from preliminary data and analysis. Could my mind be changed?
Possibly if what I've seen are errors rather than actual attempts to
"educate." You seem to like to jump to conclusions and assume anything
new is rejected simply because it is new and comes from the left
(although the latter is certainly enough to make one suspicious based on
history not histrionics). Some of us actually reject things because they
are just plain wrong, new, old or indifferent.
You have told us what not to do but you still avoid offering a solution.
So how does not complaining solve the problem? In my experience the more
we complain, especially to those elected, the more likely it is to make
progress. You seem to be leaning toward Carl's "do not vote" to make
things better theory.
On 5/19/2014 1:29 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I think that, first of all, we have to stop rejecting out of hand.  We
need to realize that what we have now isn't working.  We are lagging. 
We need to examine plans on their own merit, and we need to come up with
more.  We need to try to drop our biases for a few seconds and determine
really why our present system of education is failing.  We need to look
at other places, countries, continents where it's working, and maybe ask
why, and what can we do to meet or exceed what they're doing.
 
It's a start, and it's leaps and bounds ahead of doing the great nothing
that we are doing now.  We are masters at complaining and pointing
fingers.  We ALL need to try to set aside our differences for a minute
or two and look to the good of our young people.  And we can't sit back
and wait for the other guy to do it first.
 
Plan #2:  We can just keep bitching and complaining and finger pointing
and fall farther and farther behind.  Oh right.  And, most importantly, 
blame it on the other guy.
 
Does anyone realize that this just isn't working?
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:00 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
We'll have to agree to disagree, particularly with respect to
definitions. So what is your proposal to fix the system?
On 5/19/2014 12:46 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
You are relying on excerpts to draw a broad-brush conclusion.  Not
logical.  And my guess is -- your mind was made up before you read a
word.  The idea sprang from a non-Conservative, so, by definition, it
has to be rejected out of hand.
 
And I don't the ideas behind common core are necessarily wrong.  I do
think they are not perfect.  I don't applaud what is wrong, but I
certainly applaud an honest effort to improve rather than just sitting
back criticizing and complaining. That's all we do.  We find fault with
everything and, as a result, do nothing, and that approach is failing
our kids and our country.
 
We're not really educating kids very well now.  You keep using the word
"indoctrination".  Do we really want to do anything different?  We just
want to indoctrinate them with our thinking as opposed to liberal
thinking.  But it's still indoctrination.
 
We have to get past this.  I want to see our kids learn math and
science.  The tried approach of sitting back and doing nothing or just
constantly complaining -  simply doesn't work.  The system is failing.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 9:24 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
That seems to be the implication. You seemed to be saying that my
excerpts from the GA DoE are not what is in the books you want me to
review "cover to cover." Either they are or they are not. If they are
not then the DoE is lying. If they are then your reply makes no sense.
I, on the other hand, cannot applaud the "let's do something, even if it
is wrong" philosophy. Especially when the "something" is being driven by
politics and the desire to indoctrinate rather then educate.
On 5/19/2014 12:02 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I am not saying anyone is lying.  You constantly go off the deep end. 
You are so against anything that isn't the traditional way of doing
things that you seem to refuse to even consider anything else.  We're in
the 21st century.  Like it or not, things are not the same as they were
200 years ago, and they never will be.  Adapt.
 
I have gone to countless common core meetings now at the high school.  I
have heard and seen the presentations.  I disagree with some of it, and
I agree with some of it.
 
What we have is not working.  Plain and simple.  Our European
counterparts (and Asian for that matter) are leaps and bounds ahead of
us.  The U.S. is pathetically far behind most of the civilized world in
math and science and continuing to slip even farther.
 
As I wrote:  Common Core is not perfect.  Far from it.  But rather than
just sitting back on our dead asses complaining -- or maybe waiting for
the unrealizable perfect answer, at least someone is trying to do
something to better our students and to better our overall position in
the world.  I applaud the effort, flawed as it is.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:17 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
OK, so you are saying GA DoE is lying about the contents. If that is the
case then I guess we are in bigger trouble than we thought.
Here's another absurd example that the DoE is lying about:
The student is shown a picture of 4 containers filled with various
levels of liquid. The containers are graduated up to 6L.
Traditional and Common Core solution to part one is the same, label the
volume of each container:
1: 5L
2: 3L
3: 6L
4: 1L
Part 2 asks, if container 1 is poured into container 3, what is the
volume in container 3 after the pour?
Traditional math solution:
It can't be done
or
6L plus 5L on the floor
Common Core solution:
11L
Again you complain about pissing and moaning but have not explained your
plan on how to improve a political driven education system without politics.
So your philosophy is to try something, even if it is wrong? We know
what works from the results of the 50's and 60's. Why the strong
resistance to returning to what we know worked? Answer: because politics
has infested the education system to the point where the objective is
not education.
On 5/19/2014 11:01 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
OK.  So you haven't actually seen the book with the unadulterated
indoctrination.  I am not surprised.
 
My proposal, well, maybe we could just keep going the way we are.  We
can sit back and whine, moan, criticize, point fingers, accuse, call
names, etc.  That seems to be working really well for most people.
 
Or maybe we could try to stop all of that and really establish an
educational system that might work better than the disaster we have. 
Maybe we should really look for a good answer instead of slamming every
effort that gets made simply because it comes from someone with
different political views.
 
Liberals, traditionalists, progressives, conservatives, fribbles,
frabbles and bedolfers are all equally guilty.  And as long as we
continue to behave the way we are, we will continue to fall farther and
farther behind our world counterparts.
 
Our sitting back on our laurels and whining and pissing and moaning and
accusing gets us nowhere.  Actually, it's moving us backwards.  Maybe
it's time for some new attitudes and actions.  While common core is
definitely far from perfect, at least somebody is willing to try something.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:35 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been able to
read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one example I've read:
Problem:
32-12 = ?
Common Core Solution:
32 - 3 = 29
32 - 4 = 28
32 - 5 = 27
32 - 8 = 22
        20
You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather than
politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear your
proposal to address the issues.
On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly educated. 
Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and there are a myriad
of others.  Education is the one commodity in the U.S. for which we all
strive to get the least for our money.
 
How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read from
cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students use.  Every
word; every page.  Please, take one of the common core math books spec'd
by California and point me to a page with unadulterated indoctrination.
 
What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the class, and
the teacher.
 
It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do it. 
But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real occurrences.  Not
"everybody knows" or " it's a known fact".
 
I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In
reality, the European countries have a far denser population, and they
are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, blacks,
pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, middle speed
kids.  What's the point of your question?  And for an answer, those kids
come out of the educational systems better educated than our kids.  And,
as I wrote, there are a myriad of reasons for that.  One of them is that
they remove all of the political in-fighting and finger pointing and
name calling, and they set rigid standards for the kids, and demand
extremely advanced exams like the abitur for graduation and admission to
universities.
 
I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation, need
to stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS long as
we are indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing, we'll have
what we have now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.
 
So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come from, and
piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as under educated)
should be picking the curriculum, or we can try to do something
positive.  I choose the latter.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is as
diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? Which
European country has equivalent teacher union power that controls
education for the express purpose of benefiting it leadership through
increased membership (forced or other wise) by controlling the federal
government? You want to remove politics and focus on the issues which is
a laudable goal. How do you do that when the education system is
entirely controlled by politics and the local school boards have
virtually no say in the curriculum?
Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled by 2
states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas and
California. Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while California has
embraced it. Georgia has regrettably accepted Common Core (hopefully
that will change in the next legislative session but we are stuck with
it for 1 year at least) therefore, it has no choice but to buy the books
accepted by CA and they are unadulterated indoctrination Common Core
crap. So even if Common Core is rejected, GA taxpayers are stuck with
the CA crap or will have to spend millions to get new books while the
current ones are only 1 year old.
On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western European
educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed level, and those
countries are leaving us in the dust as far as scientific education is
concerned.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Tom Matiska
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my time nor
did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school years.  What to
teach and how to teach it was discussed at local school board and PTA
meetings, not dictated from above. Tom  
 
 

 

From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net <mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>>
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion has
nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem with it is
more intrusion from the federal government. When the US led the world in
education was when the local school districts had the most control. As
an aside, I've also read the history requirements. It is pure
unadulterated, progressive indoctrination by way of revised history.
On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
 
The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core
teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math question
one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids how to think...or
another way to think.




At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but only
because the approach to teaching/learning is different.  Different does
not automatically make it bad.
 
Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math discreetly: 
algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe doesn't do that. 
They teach mathematical concepts the encompass all of those areas and
slowly and steadily move to more and more difficult concepts.
 
When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them
juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American peers.  Most
of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and still encounter little
new material.
 
Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took the
Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all complaining they
were the hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our students told us they
were doing that math in the 7th and 8th grades.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com> [
mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Cc: rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
My State (IN.) is dropping it. 
 
BW
 
On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle"
<blueoval57 at verizon.net <mailto:blueoval57 at verizon.net> > writes:
Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college
students. Take a look:
        
http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/
 
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