[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

Steven Laib stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net
Thu May 22 07:45:58 MDT 2014


I vote for banning now. 
 
SDL
 

________________________________
 From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>
To: rushtalk at csdco.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
  


This is beyond the pale. I have Carl on ignore but this is sufficient to warrant banning. Consider this the first and last warning.

From:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:07 PM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!   
  
I'm pretty sure your family members died to get away from you.


At 05:43 PM 5/20/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

 
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There is FAR more data to support the value than there is
        against it.  There are always people who are against
        everything.  Besides that, I don’t really care what you think. 
        I have had immediate family die of cancer.  You’re fortunate to
        have not endured that.  Don’t slam those who have.  My mother
        suffered through a colostomy and inhuman pain.  Your expressed
        sentiments  are callous, thoughtless, insulting, and
        unsolicited.  And yes, I take it very personally. 

I'm not "slamming" anyone! Fuck you man and thanks for your
        sympathies you cock sucking piece of shit!
Unsubscribe me from this fucking list you motherfucking
        douchenozzels!
No wait I know how.


 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:54 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
My father died at 72 from atherosclerosis (pneumonia) in '82 and
        my mother died of old age (87) and failure to thrive (pneumonia)
        on the 15th of this month (5 days ago, not at all unexpectedly).

None of our immediate family has/had cancer.

Not to even mention how inaccurate and dangerous the procedure
        (colonoscopy) is.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3665199.ece
http://www.gutsense.org/crc/crc_side_effects.html
http://www.reportingonhealth.org/2013/10/13/only-accident-fatal-colonoscopy-leaves-family-stunned-and-unpaid 
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/3/230.long


At 12:22 PM 5/19/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

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My mom died of colon cancer – young, and my 49 year-old baby
        brother just got diagnosed with advanced.  He’ll see 50 in July,
        but not 51.  My dad died of heart attack in early 60’s, and my
        other baby brother died of a stroke.  Never occurred to me I
        would survive my whole family.   I am truly blessed.  I am
        really healthy.  I know that could turn on a dime, but I try
        (not always successfully) to remember my blessings every day. 
        But it put a scare in me, and the doc agreed to do the check.  I
        can drink almost a half-gallon at once, but it’s the damned
        taste right after the last swallow that makes me want to gag.
 
Like Dave Barry wrote – 4 liters is approximately 254 gallons.
 
And the job.  Well, it works!  My wife is picking me up in 45
        minutes to drive to the hospital.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 11:18 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Colonscopy coming up? You have my sympathy. I didn't find it
        that bad tasting when I added the lemon flavoring but drinking
        so much of it over such a short time was the challenge. Not to
        mention the job it is designed to do.

On 5/19/2014 1:53 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
Anybody know what’s in Gavilyte?  Couldn’t they make it taste
        better?
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:43 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
"We" are not rejecting anything out of hand. I am rejecting
        something resulting from preliminary data and analysis. Could my
        mind be changed? Possibly if what I've seen are errors rather
        than actual attempts to "educate." You seem to like to jump to
        conclusions and assume anything new is rejected simply because
        it is new and comes from the left (although the latter is
        certainly enough to make one suspicious based on history not
        histrionics). Some of us actually reject things because they are
        just plain wrong, new, old or indifferent.
You have told us what not to do but you still avoid offering a
        solution. So how does not complaining solve the problem? In my
        experience the more we complain, especially to those elected,
        the more likely it is to make progress. You seem to be leaning
        toward Carl's "do not vote" to make things better theory.
On 5/19/2014 1:29 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I think that, first of all, we have to stop rejecting out of
        hand.  We need to realize that what we have now isn’t working. 
        We are lagging.  We need to examine plans on their own merit,
        and we need to come up with more.  We need to try to drop our
        biases for a few seconds and determine really why our present
        system of education is failing.  We need to look at other
        places, countries, continents where it’s working, and maybe ask
        why, and what can we do to meet or exceed what they’re doing.
 
It’s a start, and it’s leaps and bounds ahead of doing the great
        nothing that we are doing now.  We are masters at complaining
        and pointing fingers.  We ALL need to try to set aside our
        differences for a minute or two and look to the good of our
        young people.  And we can’t sit back and wait for the other guy
        to do it first.
 
Plan #2:  We can just keep bitching and complaining and finger
        pointing and fall farther and farther behind.  Oh right.  And,
        most importantly,  blame it on the other guy.
 
Does anyone realize that this just isn’t working?
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:00 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
We'll have to agree to disagree, particularly with respect to
        definitions. So what is your proposal to fix the system?
On 5/19/2014 12:46 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
You are relying on excerpts to draw a broad-brush conclusion. 
        Not logical.  And my guess is – your mind was made up before you
        read a word.  The idea sprang from a non-Conservative, so, by
        definition, it has to be rejected out of hand.
 
And I don’t the ideas behind common core are necessarily wrong. 
        I do think they are not perfect.  I don’t applaud what is wrong,
        but I certainly applaud an honest effort to improve rather than
        just sitting back criticizing and complaining. That’s all we
        do.  We find fault with everything and, as a result, do nothing,
        and that approach is failing our kids and our country.
 
We’re not really educating kids very well now.  You keep using
        the word “indoctrination”.  Do we really want to do anything
        different?  We just want to indoctrinate them with our thinking
        as opposed to liberal thinking.  But it’s still indoctrination.
 
We have to get past this.  I want to see our kids learn math and
        science.  The tried approach of sitting back and doing nothing
        or just constantly complaining -  simply doesn’t work.  The
        system is failing.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 9:24 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
That seems to be the implication. You seemed to be saying that
        my excerpts from the GA DoE are not what is in the books you
        want me to review "cover to cover." Either they are or they are
        not. If they are not then the DoE is lying. If they are then
        your reply makes no sense.
I, on the other hand, cannot applaud the "let's do something,
        even if it is wrong" philosophy. Especially when the "something"
        is being driven by politics and the desire to indoctrinate
        rather then educate.
On 5/19/2014 12:02 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I am not saying anyone is lying.  You constantly go off the deep
        end.  You are so against anything that isn’t the traditional way
        of doing things that you seem to refuse to even consider
        anything else.  We’re in the 21st century.  Like it or not,
        things are not the same as they were 200 years ago, and they
        never will be.  Adapt.
 
I have gone to countless common core meetings now at the high
        school.  I have heard and seen the presentations.  I disagree
        with some of it, and I agree with some of it.
 
What we have is not working.  Plain and simple.  Our European
        counterparts (and Asian for that matter) are leaps and bounds
        ahead of us.  The U.S. is pathetically far behind most of the
        civilized world in math and science and continuing to slip even
        farther.
 
As I wrote:  Common Core is not perfect.  Far from it.  But
        rather than just sitting back on our dead asses complaining – or
        maybe waiting for the unrealizable perfect answer, at least
        someone is trying to do something to better our students and to
        better our overall position in the world.  I applaud the effort,
        flawed as it is.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:17 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
OK, so you are saying GA DoE is lying about the contents. If
        that is the case then I guess we are in bigger trouble than we
        thought.
Here's another absurd example that the DoE is lying about:
The student is shown a picture of 4 containers filled with
        various levels of liquid. The containers are graduated up to 6L.
Traditional and Common Core solution to part one is the same,
        label the volume of each container:
1: 5L
2: 3L
3: 6L
4: 1L
Part 2 asks, if container 1 is poured into container 3, what is
        the volume in container 3 after the pour?
Traditional math solution:
It can't be done
or
6L plus 5L on the floor
Common Core solution:
11L
Again you complain about pissing and moaning but have not
        explained your plan on how to improve a political driven
        education system without politics.
So your philosophy is to try something, even if it is wrong? We
        know what works from the results of the 50's and 60's. Why the
        strong resistance to returning to what we know worked? Answer:
        because politics has infested the education system to the point
        where the objective is not education.
On 5/19/2014 11:01 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
OK.  So you haven’t actually seen the book with the
        unadulterated indoctrination.  I am not surprised.
 
My proposal, well, maybe we could just keep going the way we
        are.  We can sit back and whine, moan, criticize, point fingers,
        accuse, call names, etc.  That seems to be working really well
        for most people.
 
Or maybe we could try to stop all of that and really establish
        an educational system that might work better than the disaster
        we have.  Maybe we should really look for a good answer instead
        of slamming every effort that gets made simply because it comes
        from someone with different political views.
 
Liberals, traditionalists, progressives, conservatives,
        fribbles, frabbles and bedolfers are all equally guilty.  And as
        long as we continue to behave the way we are, we will continue
        to fall farther and farther behind our world counterparts.
 
Our sitting back on our laurels and whining and pissing and
        moaning and accusing gets us nowhere.  Actually, it’s moving us
        backwards.  Maybe it’s time for some new attitudes and actions. 
        While common core is definitely far from perfect, at least
        somebody is willing to try something.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:35 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been
        able to read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one
        example I've read:
Problem:
32-12 = ?
Common Core Solution:
32 - 3 = 29
32 - 4 = 28
32 - 5 = 27
32 - 8 = 22
        20
You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather
        than politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear
        your proposal to address the issues.
On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
I think it’s an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly
        educated.  Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and
        there are a myriad of others.  Education is the one commodity in
        the U.S. for which we all strive to get the least for our money.
 
How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really
        read from cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our
        students use.  Every word; every page.  Please, take one of the
        common core math books spec’d by California and point me to a
        page with unadulterated indoctrination.
 
What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the
        class, and the teacher.
 
It’s easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all
        do it.  But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real
        occurrences.  Not “everybody knows” or “ it’s a known fact”.
 
I am not sure of the significance of your population question. 
        In reality, the European countries have a far denser population,
        and they are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens,
        oranges, blacks, pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids,
        fast kids, middle speed kids.  What’s the point of your
        question?  And for an answer, those kids come out of the
        educational systems better educated than our kids.  And, as I
        wrote, there are a myriad of reasons for that.  One of them is
        that they remove all of the political in-fighting and finger
        pointing and name calling, and they set rigid standards for the
        kids, and demand extremely advanced exams like the abitur for
        graduation and admission to universities.
 
I don’t’ care if it’s common core or what it is.  We, as a
        nation, need to stop our bickering and start really educating
        our kids.  AS long as we are indeed finger pointing, name
        calling, politicizing, we’ll have what we have now, or worse. 
        And it sure as heck isn’t working.
 
So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come
        from, and piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as
        under educated) should be picking the curriculum, or we can try
        to do something positive.  I choose the latter.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country
        is as diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many
        children? Which European country has equivalent teacher union
        power that controls education for the express purpose of
        benefiting it leadership through increased membership (forced or
        other wise) by controlling the federal government? You want to
        remove politics and focus on the issues which is a laudable
        goal. How do you do that when the education system is entirely
        controlled by politics and the local school boards have
        virtually no say in the curriculum?
Here is how things work. The content of text books are
        controlled by 2 states simply because they are the largest
        consumers, Texas and California. Texas has smartly rejected
        Common Core while California has embraced it. Georgia has
        regrettably accepted Common Core (hopefully that will change in
        the next legislative session but we are stuck with it for 1 year
        at least) therefore, it has no choice but to buy the books
        accepted by CA and they are unadulterated indoctrination Common
        Core crap. So even if Common Core is rejected, GA taxpayers are
        stuck with the CA crap or will have to spend millions to get new
        books while the current ones are only 1 year old.
On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western
        European educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed
        level, and those countries are leaving us in the dust as far as
        scientific education is concerned.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Tom Matiska
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my
        time nor did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school
        years.  What to teach and how to teach it was discussed at local
        school board and PTA meetings, not dictated from above. Tom   
 
  
  
From: Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>
To: rushtalk at csdco.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my
        opinion has nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the
        real problem with it is more intrusion from the federal
        government. When the US led the world in education was when the
        local school districts had the most control. As an aside, I've
        also read the history requirements. It is pure unadulterated,
        progressive indoctrination by way of revised history.
On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
 
The biggest problem is that it’s a change, and people resist
        change.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
To: Rushtalk Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core
        teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math
        question one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids
        how to think...or another way to think.




At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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I am not so sure it’s all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but
        only because the approach to teaching/learning is different. 
        Different does not automatically make it bad.
 
Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math
        discreetly:  algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western
        Europe doesn’t do that.  They teach mathematical concepts the
        encompass all of those areas and slowly and steadily move to
        more and more difficult concepts.
 
When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of
        them juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American
        peers.  Most of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and
        still encounter little new material.
 
Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just
        took the Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all
        complaining they were the hardest tests they had ever taken. 
        Our students told us they were doing that math in the 7th and
        8th grades.
 
From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Cc: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
 
My State (IN.) is dropping it.  
 
BW
 
On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle" <blueoval57 at verizon.net > writes:
Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college
        students. Take a look:
         http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/ 
 
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