[Rushtalk] No Can Do!

John A. Quayle blueoval57 at verizon.net
Thu May 22 21:41:37 MDT 2014


At 07:51 AM 5/20/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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>Perfect example of the all or nothing scenario.  It's either 
>perfect, or it's in a panic.  This fits neither of these.

         Neither is it suitable, nor acceptable!

>
>From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] 
>On Behalf Of John A. Quayle
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:24 PM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>At 09:33 PM 5/19/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
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>If we wait for perfect, nothing will ever happen. And I truly doubt 
>the country will be less safe if we happen to find a better way to teach math.
>
>          Sorry, but both of your contentions are totally erroneous! 
> Doing ANYTHING in a panic leads to misery. The country's safety has 
> NOTHING to do with math - who knows it, what methods, who's 
> teaching it......whatever. Who controls the levers and switches of 
> power and the economy are of paramount importance to our safety! 
> Math?!? Meh................
>
>
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of John A. Quayle
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:09 PM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List; 'Rushtalk Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>At 11:01 AM 5/19/2014, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
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>OK.  So you haven't actually seen the book with the unadulterated 
>indoctrination.  I am not surprised.
>
>My proposal, well, maybe we could just keep going the way we 
>are.  We can sit back and whine, moan, criticize, point fingers, 
>accuse, call names, etc.  That seems to be working really well for most people.
>
>Or maybe we could try to stop all of that and really establish an 
>educational system that might work better than the disaster we 
>have.  Maybe we should really look for a good answer instead of 
>slamming every effort that gets made simply because it comes from 
>someone with different political views.
>
>Liberals, traditionalists, progressives, conservatives, fribbles, 
>frabbles and bedolfers are all equally guilty.  And as long as we 
>continue to behave the way we are, we will continue to fall farther 
>and farther behind our world counterparts.
>
>Our sitting back on our laurels and whining and pissing and moaning 
>and accusing gets us nowhere.  Actually, it's moving us 
>backwards.  Maybe it's time for some new attitudes and 
>actions.  While common core is definitely far from perfect, at least 
>somebody is willing to try something.
>
>          Stephen, "trying something" is what we get when citizens 
> howl for "safety" from the government and the end result is a loss 
> of our rights under the guise of "doing something."
>
>          I'd druther somebody PERFECT a lesson plan FIRST before 
> trying to foist gibberish on young skulls full of mush. You may 
> differ and that's your right.
>
>
>John Q.
>
>
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:35 AM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>Since the books are not yet available in GA, I have only been able 
>to read excerpts provided by GA DoE. However, here is one example I've read:
>
>Problem:
>
>32-12 = ?
>
>Common Core Solution:
>
>32 - 3 = 29
>32 - 4 = 28
>32 - 5 = 27
>32 - 8 = 22
>         20
>
>You can rail all you want about addressing the issues rather than 
>politics but since politics are in control I'd like to hear your 
>proposal to address the issues.
>
>On 5/19/2014 9:28 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>I think it's an excellent comparison.  Our kids are poorly 
>educated.  Pure and simple.  The reasons you cite are valid, and 
>there are a myriad of others.  Education is the one commodity in the 
>U.S. for which we all strive to get the least for our money.
>
>How many text books have you really looked at.  I mean really read 
>from cover to cover?  I have read all of the ones our students 
>use.  Every word; every page.  Please, take one of the common core 
>math books spec'd by California and point me to a page with 
>unadulterated indoctrination.
>
>What classroom is this taking place in?  Cite the school, the class, 
>and the teacher.
>
>It's easy to point the finger in sweeping generalities, we all do 
>it.  But I am challenging you to cite specifics.  Real 
>occurrences.  Not "everybody knows" or " it's a known fact".
>
>I am not sure of the significance of your population question.  In 
>reality, the European countries have a far denser population, and 
>they are just as diverse as we are.  They have greens, oranges, 
>blacks, pinks, whites, purples, geniuses, slow kids, fast kids, 
>middle speed kids.  What's the point of your question?  And for an 
>answer, those kids come out of the educational systems better 
>educated than our kids.  And, as I wrote, there are a myriad of 
>reasons for that.  One of them is that they remove all of the 
>political in-fighting and finger pointing and name calling, and they 
>set rigid standards for the kids, and demand extremely advanced 
>exams like the abitur for graduation and admission to universities.
>
>I don't' care if it's common core or what it is.  We, as a nation, 
>need to stop our bickering and start really educating our kids.  AS 
>long as we are indeed finger pointing, name calling, politicizing, 
>we'll have what we have now, or worse.  And it sure as heck isn't working.
>
>So we can all sit around and whine about where text books come from, 
>and piss and moan that the parents (who are often just as under 
>educated) should be picking the curriculum, or we can try to do 
>something positive.  I choose the latter.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
>Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:23 AM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>I'm not sure that is a valid comparison. Which European country is 
>as diverse as the US and is trying to educate as many children? 
>Which European country has equivalent teacher union power that 
>controls education for the express purpose of benefiting it 
>leadership through increased membership (forced or other wise) by 
>controlling the federal government? You want to remove politics and 
>focus on the issues which is a laudable goal. How do you do that 
>when the education system is entirely controlled by politics and the 
>local school boards have virtually no say in the curriculum?
>Here is how things work. The content of text books are controlled by 
>2 states simply because they are the largest consumers, Texas and 
>California. Texas has smartly rejected Common Core while California 
>has embraced it. Georgia has regrettably accepted Common Core 
>(hopefully that will change in the next legislative session but we 
>are stuck with it for 1 year at least) therefore, it has no choice 
>but to buy the books accepted by CA and they are unadulterated 
>indoctrination Common Core crap. So even if Common Core is rejected, 
>GA taxpayers are stuck with the CA crap or will have to spend 
>millions to get new books while the current ones are only 1 year old.
>On 5/18/2014 3:03 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>While I still tend to agree on the intrusion issue, Western European 
>educational standards are indeed dictated at the fed level, and 
>those countries are leaving us in the dust as far as scientific 
>education is concerned.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Tom Matiska
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:52 AM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>Bingo on the intrusion.  Dept of Education did not exist in my time 
>nor did its predecessor HEW exist during my parents school 
>years.  What to teach and how to teach it was discussed at local 
>school board and PTA meetings, not dictated from above. Tom
>
>
>
>From: Dennis Putnam <<mailto:dap1 at bellsouth.net>dap1 at bellsouth.net>
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:25 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>As a professional tutor, I can tell you it is crap and my opinion 
>has nothing to do with inertia. That being said, the real problem 
>with it is more intrusion from the federal government. When the US 
>led the world in education was when the local school districts had 
>the most control. As an aside, I've also read the history 
>requirements. It is pure unadulterated, progressive indoctrination 
>by way of revised history.
>On 5/17/2014 3:55 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>All of this, yes, and I think a far more comprehensive approach.
>
>The biggest problem is that it's a change, and people resist change.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Paf Dvorak
>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
>To: Rushtalk Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>I think what Americans don't 'get' is that this common core 
>teaching/learning method isn't to be used to cypher EVERY math 
>question one runs across, but rather attempts to teach the kids how 
>to think...or another way to think.
>
>
>
>
>At 06:48 AM 5/17/2014 -0700, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
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>I am not so sure it's all bad.  No doubt, it is confusing, but only 
>because the approach to teaching/learning is different.  Different 
>does not automatically make it bad.
>
>Here in the U.S>, we teach the various areas of math 
>discreetly:  algebra, geometry, trig, etc.  Most of western Europe 
>doesn't do that.  They teach mathematical concepts the encompass all 
>of those areas and slowly and steadily move to more and more 
>difficult concepts.
>
>When our new exchange students arrive here in August, most of them 
>juniors, they are leaps and bounds ahead of their American 
>peers.  Most of them can move straight into AP Calculus, and still 
>encounter little new material.
>
>Our two juniors, one from Germany and one from Denmark, just took 
>the Common Core practice tests.  The American kids were all 
>complaining they were the hardest tests they had ever taken.  Our 
>students told us they were doing that math in the 7th and 8th grades.
>
>From: <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com 
>[ mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On Behalf Of Bernard L Willis
>Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:31 PM
>To: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Cc: <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>rushtalk at csdco.com
>Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] No Can Do!
>
>My State (IN.) is dropping it.
>
>BW
>
>On Fri, 16 May 2014 23:13:48 -0400 "John A. Quayle" 
><<mailto:blueoval57 at verizon.net>blueoval57 at verizon.net > writes:
>Common core is becoming a "common nightmare" - even for college 
>students. Take a look:
> 
><http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/>http://eaglerising.com/6195/common-core-math-confuses-college-students/ 
>
>
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>Paf Dvorak
>
>
>
>
>
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