[Rushtalk] U.S. Air Force's most sophisticated stealth jet is beaten in dogfight by plane from 1970s... despite being the most expensive weapon in history

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Mon Aug 3 12:34:03 MDT 2015

On the other hand, if we don't invest in the new platforms, technology
will not advance. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere.

On 8/3/2015 2:23 PM, Steven Laib wrote:
> I think that there needs to be a balance between quantity and
> quality.  Consider, for example, the F6F Hellcat, which was mass
> produced and was a very high quality machine.  
> Or the P-51 Mustang. 
> Today we are sinking massive amounts of money into technology and not
> considering what it will buy us when the rubber meets the road. 
> Further, we have to consider that
> experience has shown the need for dog-fighting ability, as hitting the
> enemy beyond the horizon still seems to be a pipe dream. 
> I'm no military expert and could not serve.  But I think my historical
> studies show one thing.  That it is generally more important to have a
> good, steady, reliable platform and
> then put the right weapons on it.  It is easier to upgrade the weapons
> than the platform.  So, we may be better off with a larger fleet of
> F-15's with upgraded technology and weapons
> than a much smaller fleet of under-performing F-35's. 
> On 8/2/15 8:40 AM, Carl Spitzer wrote:
>> On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 02:21 +0000, Tom Matiska wrote:
>>> True Steve, but I also remember my early F4 days when my old
>>> Colonels lamented how the AF had shrunk to a few thousand fighters.
>>> They saw 10,000+ 1950's vintage fighters  replaced by a few thousand
>>> multimillion dollar fighters, then by smaller numbers of fighters
>>> costing tens of millions..   Most of the recent F15 and F16
>>> production has been export models.  Our inventory consists of
>>> hundreds of decades old models that can't wait for the F35 to
>>> mature.   There is no chance we will be able to afford the necessary
>>> number of these  new aircraft. The quantity vs quality argument has
>>> reached a break point.  Tom
>> Yeah we can not afford to loose one of those shiny new toys.  I have
>> just aquired a Dell Gen 4 which is a monster at 42 pounds with PATA,
>> SATA and floppy and can handle 4gig memory and a 3.40 gig processor
>> and my oldest is this HP Kayak PII Deschutes for which there is
>> available a max 750mb memory currently running 320mb so no KDE4 here
>> its still 3.5.10 under SuSE 10.0.
>> Old rough and tough still rules the day same for the kids at work
>> with their perfectly fit bodies lacking the defects I was born with
>> and I still walk rings around them at 54 and there are guys 65 and 75
>> working there.
>> Perhaps its time I got one of those Old Guys rule shirts.
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