[Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

Steven Laib stevenlaib at sbcglobal.net
Sat Aug 22 11:02:02 MDT 2015


There is also the question of whose lives we are interested in 
preserving and bettering, and at what cost.
Sometimes there is no choice in the matter.

SDL

On 8/22/15 11:29 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> This is completely different than how I interpreted your earlier 
> replies. Being sometimes dense, please provide a recent example where 
> the US, as a people, put more emphasis on killing than preserving or 
> bettering life. I'm also not sure what you mean my "more emphasis."
>
> On 8/22/2015 12:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>
>> I tend to agree.  But it also begs the question “Is anticipation 
>> enough?”  I sometimes think we seek way more than just anticipation.
>>
>> But this is not a discussion I “anticipated”.  I will not argue 
>> pre-emption or anything that resembles it.  My original point, and I 
>> believe it strongly, is that we, as a people (maybe even as a 
>> species), put far more emphasis on killing each other – and “we” 
>> includes us Americans,  than on preserving – and even bettering – the 
>> life we claim to value.
>>
>> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] 
>> *On Behalf Of *Steven Laib
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:54 AM
>> *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About 
>> Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>>
>> That smacks of the old Chinese observation that Revenge Never Ends.
>> But that may well be human nature.  Douglas Adams said that human 
>> relations can be summed up in Retribution, Anticipation and Diplomacy.
>> Still, on has to consider that survival has a price. If your society 
>> wishes to survive, Anticipation may be the only reasonable course of 
>> action.
>>
>> SDL
>>
>> On 8/22/15 9:35 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>
>>     Sorry, won’t bite.  One example (or even several) does not
>>     extrapolate to “it’s always right”, any more than abuse or misuse
>>     of a benefit or gift by some extrapolates to “it’s all wrong”. 
>>     And I will step out on a limb here – vowing to kill us does not
>>     justify killing them in advance.  That would never end.  I simply
>>     don’t agree with the all or nothing philosophies.
>>
>>     *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>>     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
>>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 5:38 AM
>>     *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right
>>     About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>>
>>     Hmm. A country that has vowed to kill us all is called a
>>     "stretch" when I use the term self-defense. You reinforce my
>>     assertion of convoluted logic.
>>
>>     On 8/20/2015 6:04 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>
>>         We rationalize a lot with the stretch of “self defense”.  And
>>         yes, I choose the word ”stretch” both carefully and
>>         deliberately.  I won’t go there.  It’s an argument neither of
>>         us can win.  And again, the question manifests the philosophy
>>         of all or nothing.  I believe that such a view is an error.
>>
>>         *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>>         <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>>         [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
>>         *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:48 PM
>>         *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is
>>         Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>>
>>         Convoluted logic at best. You seem to be making a moral
>>         equivalency between self defense and acts of murder. Where
>>         are we showing willingness to kill other than in self defense?
>>
>>         On 8/20/2015 5:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>>
>>             I agree with the underlying principle of your post. At
>>             the same time, I question our willingness – and even lust
>>             – to spend money to take life, but balk at spending to
>>             save it or better it.  We’re an odd species.  We fight
>>             very hard for our right to kill each other.
>>
>>             *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>>             <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>>             [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
>>             Laib
>>             *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:54 AM
>>             *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>>             *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is
>>             Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>>
>>             The problem is that if we weren't spending horrendous
>>             amounts of money on social welfare then the budget would
>>             not be anywhere near as troubled by the military spending.
>>             IMO, Military spending is constitutionally mandated. 
>>             Social welfare is not and may not even be permitted.
>>
>>             Just my two cents.
>>
>>             SDL
>>
>>             On 8/17/15 11:00 PM, Carl Spitzer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>                 *George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
>>                 Policy and Mitt Romney is Wrong*
>>                 /Writes/George Will:
>>
>>                 Few things so embitter a nation as squandered valor,
>>                 hence Americans, with much valor spent there, want
>>                 Iraq to master its fissures. But with America in the
>>                 second decade of its longest war, the probable
>>                 Republican nominee is promising to extend it
>>                 indefinitely.
>>
>>                 Mitt Romney opposes negotiations with the Taliban
>>                 while they “are killing our soldiers.” Which means:
>>                 No negotiations until the war ends, when there will
>>                 be nothing about which to negotiate…
>>
>>                 *The U.S. defense budget is about 43% of the world’s
>>                 total military spending ­ more than the combined
>>                 defense spending of the next 17 nations*, many of
>>                 which are U.S. allies. *Are Republicans really going
>>                 to warn voters that America will be imperiled if the
>>                 defense budget is cut 8% from projections over the
>>                 next decade? In 2017, defense spending would still be
>>                 more than that of the next 10 countries.*
>>
>>                 *Do Republicans think it is premature to withdraw up
>>                 to 7,000 troops from Europe two decades after the
>>                 Soviet Union’s death?*About 73,000 will remain, most
>>                 of them in prosperous, pacific, largely unarmed and
>>                 utterly unthreatened Germany. Why do so many remain?
>>
>>                 *Since 2001, the United States has waged war in three
>>                 nations, and some Republicans appear ready to bring
>>                 the total to five, adding Iran and Syria.*(/The
>>                 Weekly Standard/, of neoconservative bent, regrets
>>                 that Obama “is reluctant to intervene to oust Iran’s
>>                 closest ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.”)
>>                 *GOP critics say Obama’s proposed defense cuts will
>>                 limit America’s ability to engage in troop-intensive
>>                 nation-building. Most Americans probably say: Good…*
>>
>>                 Romney says: “It is unacceptable for Iran to have a
>>                 nuclear weapon…” (Leon) Panetta says Iran acquiring
>>                 nuclear weapons is “unacceptable” and “a red line for
>>                 us” and if “we get intelligence that they are
>>                 proceeding with developing a nuclear weapon, then we
>>                 will take whatever steps necessary to stop it.”
>>
>>                 *What, then, is the difference between Romney and
>>                 Obama regarding Iran?*
>>
>>                 *Osama bin Laden and many other “high-value targets”
>>                 are dead, the drone war is being waged more
>>                 vigorously than ever, and Guantanamo is still
>>                 open,*so Republicans can hardly say Obama has
>>                 implemented dramatic and dangerous discontinuities
>>                 regarding counterterrorism. Obama says that even with
>>                 his proposed cuts, the defense budget would increase
>>                 at about the rate of inflation through the next decade.
>>
>>                 *Republicans who think America is being endangered by
>>                 “appeasement” and military parsimony have worked that
>>                 pedal on their organ quite enough.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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