[Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

Stephen A. Frye s.frye at verizon.net
Sat Aug 22 11:24:49 MDT 2015


At what cost?  And people say a human life has no dollar value.  How silly.

 

From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Laib
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 10:02 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

 

There is also the question of whose lives we are interested in preserving
and bettering, and at what cost. 
Sometimes there is no choice in the matter.  

SDL

On 8/22/15 11:29 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:

This is completely different than how I interpreted your earlier replies.
Being sometimes dense, please provide a recent example where the US, as a
people, put more emphasis on killing than preserving or bettering life. I'm
also not sure what you mean my "more emphasis."

On 8/22/2015 12:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

I tend to agree.  But it also begs the question "Is anticipation enough?"  I
sometimes think we seek way more than just anticipation.

 

But this is not a discussion I "anticipated".  I will not argue pre-emption
or anything that resembles it.  My original point, and I believe it
strongly, is that we, as a people (maybe even as a species), put far more
emphasis on killing each other - and "we" includes us Americans,  than on
preserving - and even bettering - the life we claim to value.

 

From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Laib
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:54 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

 

That smacks of the old Chinese observation that Revenge Never Ends. 
But that may well be human nature.  Douglas Adams said that human relations
can be summed up in Retribution, Anticipation and Diplomacy. 
Still, on has to consider that survival has a price. If your society wishes
to survive, Anticipation may be the only reasonable course of action. 

SDL




On 8/22/15 9:35 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

Sorry, won't bite.  One example (or even several) does not extrapolate to
"it's always right", any more than abuse or misuse of a benefit or gift by
some extrapolates to "it's all wrong".  And I will step out on a limb here -
vowing to kill us does not justify killing them in advance.  That would
never end.  I simply don't agree with the all or nothing philosophies.

 

From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 5:38 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

 

Hmm. A country that has vowed to kill us all is called a "stretch" when I
use the term self-defense. You reinforce my assertion of convoluted logic.

On 8/20/2015 6:04 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

We rationalize a lot with the stretch of "self defense".  And yes, I choose
the word "stretch" both carefully and deliberately.  I won't go there.  It's
an argument neither of us can win.  And again, the question manifests the
philosophy of all or nothing.  I believe that such a view is an error.

 

From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Putnam
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:48 PM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

 

Convoluted logic at best. You seem to be making a moral equivalency between
self defense and acts of murder. Where are we showing willingness to kill
other than in self defense?

On 8/20/2015 5:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:

I agree with the underlying principle of your post.  At the same time, I
question our willingness - and even lust - to spend money to take life, but
balk at spending to save it or better it.  We're an odd species.  We fight
very hard for our right to kill each other.

 

From: rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Laib
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:54 AM
To: rushtalk at csdco.com
Subject: Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign
Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

 

The problem is that if we weren't spending horrendous amounts of money on
social welfare then the budget would not be anywhere near as troubled by the
military spending. 
IMO, Military spending is constitutionally mandated.  Social welfare is not
and may not even be permitted.  

Just my two cents. 

SDL

On 8/17/15 11:00 PM, Carl Spitzer wrote:


  
George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and Mitt Romney is
Wrong
Writes George Will:

Few things so embitter a nation as squandered valor, hence Americans, with
much valor spent there, want Iraq to master its fissures. But with America
in the second decade of its longest war, the probable Republican nominee is
promising to extend it indefinitely.

Mitt Romney opposes negotiations with the Taliban while they "are killing
our soldiers." Which means: No negotiations until the war ends, when there
will be nothing about which to negotiate.

The U.S. defense budget is about 43% of the world's total military spending
- more than the combined defense spending of the next 17 nations, many of
which are U.S. allies. Are Republicans really going to warn voters that
America will be imperiled if the defense budget is cut 8% from projections
over the next decade? In 2017, defense spending would still be more than
that of the next 10 countries.

Do Republicans think it is premature to withdraw up to 7,000 troops from
Europe two decades after the Soviet Union's death? About 73,000 will remain,
most of them in prosperous, pacific, largely unarmed and utterly
unthreatened Germany. Why do so many remain?

Since 2001, the United States has waged war in three nations, and some
Republicans appear ready to bring the total to five, adding Iran and Syria.
(The Weekly Standard, of neoconservative bent, regrets that Obama "is
reluctant to intervene to oust Iran's closest ally, Syrian President Bashar
al-Assad.") GOP critics say Obama's proposed defense cuts will limit
America's ability to engage in troop-intensive nation-building. Most
Americans probably say: Good.

Romney says: "It is unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon." (Leon)
Panetta says Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is "unacceptable" and "a red
line for us" and if "we get intelligence that they are proceeding with
developing a nuclear weapon, then we will take whatever steps necessary to
stop it."

What, then, is the difference between Romney and Obama regarding Iran?

Osama bin Laden and many other "high-value targets" are dead, the drone war
is being waged more vigorously than ever, and Guantanamo is still open, so
Republicans can hardly say Obama has implemented dramatic and dangerous
discontinuities regarding counterterrorism. Obama says that even with his
proposed cuts, the defense budget would increase at about the rate of
inflation through the next decade.

Republicans who think America is being endangered by "appeasement" and
military parsimony have worked that pedal on their organ quite enough.













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