[Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong

Dennis Putnam dap1 at bellsouth.net
Sun Aug 23 06:18:34 MDT 2015


On 8/22/2015 9:04 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
> I don’t disagree – usually.  No, likely we shouldn’t just back.  Nor
> should we just wage war against anyone and everyone who might disagree
> with us.
>
Which, of course we don't do, so what is the point?
>
>   There is some balance.  I think we should strive to strike that
> balance.  The operative word is “strive”.  I also hope for wisdom. 
> Probably way too much to ask.  Maybe even idealistic,  but I do hope.
>
>  
>
> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Tom Matiska
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 5:28 PM
> *To:* Rushtalk Discussion List
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About
> Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>
>  
>
> Or should we sit back and let Iran, ISIS, North Korea, etc....  be the
> "wise judges"??   We internalize too much about what "we" should do. 
> Anything we do is wrong to some degree, including doing nothing.   Tom
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 6:18 PM, Stephen A. Frye
> <s.frye at verizon.net <mailto:s.frye at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>  
>
> Silly was quite sarcastic.  My point is that what I think is silly is
> when people say one can’t put a value on human life.  We do it all the
> time.  We assign relative value to different lives all of the time.
>
>  
>
> And I like (no sarcasm) your statement of “sometimes” necessary.  My
> question from that would be “are we wise judges of what is
> necessary?”  I don’t know.
>
>  
>
> But again, this is WAY off point.  But then it helps me make my
> original point:  look at all of the words here written to justify
> killing, yet not a word written about maybe bettering life.  My whole
> original point.
>
>  
>
> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
> [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 12:06 PM
> *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About
> Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>
>  
>
> I can answer that with an example. My life and those of other
> Americans are worth more than the entire population of Imperial Japan.
> I would likely not be here today if it were not for Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki. My father was in the Philippines training for the Japanese
> invasion. That may sound arrogant but tough, they should not have
> attacked Perl Harbor. Life is hard, war is hell and SOMETIMES (note
> the emphasis, so I am not accused of "always") necessary. Nothing
> "silly" about that at all.
>
> On 8/22/2015 1:24 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>     At what cost?  And people say a human life has no dollar value. 
>     How silly.
>
>      
>
>     *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Laib
>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 10:02 AM
>     *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right
>     About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>
>      
>
>     There is also the question of whose lives we are interested in
>     preserving and bettering, and at what cost.
>     Sometimes there is no choice in the matter. 
>
>     SDL
>
>     On 8/22/15 11:29 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>         This is completely different than how I interpreted your
>         earlier replies. Being sometimes dense, please provide a
>         recent example where the US, as a people, put more emphasis on
>         killing than preserving or bettering life. I'm also not sure
>         what you mean my "more emphasis."
>
>         On 8/22/2015 12:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>             I tend to agree.  But it also begs the question “Is
>             anticipation enough?”  I sometimes think we seek way more
>             than just anticipation.
>
>              
>
>             But this is not a discussion I “anticipated”.  I will not
>             argue pre-emption or anything that resembles it.  My
>             original point, and I believe it strongly, is that we, as
>             a people (maybe even as a species), put far more emphasis
>             on killing each other – and “we” includes us Americans,
>              than on preserving – and even bettering – the life we
>             claim to value.
>
>              
>
>             *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>             <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>             [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Laib
>             *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:54 AM
>             *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>             *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul is
>             Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>
>              
>
>             That smacks of the old Chinese observation that Revenge
>             Never Ends.
>             But that may well be human nature.  Douglas Adams said
>             that human relations can be summed up in Retribution,
>             Anticipation and Diplomacy.
>             Still, on has to consider that survival has a price. If
>             your society wishes to survive, Anticipation may be the
>             only reasonable course of action.
>
>             SDL
>
>
>             On 8/22/15 9:35 AM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>                 Sorry, won’t bite.  One example (or even several) does
>                 not extrapolate to “it’s always right”, any more than
>                 abuse or misuse of a benefit or gift by some
>                 extrapolates to “it’s all wrong”.  And I will step out
>                 on a limb here – vowing to kill us does not justify
>                 killing them in advance.  That would never end.  I
>                 simply don’t agree with the all or nothing philosophies.
>
>                  
>
>                 *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>                 <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>                 [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of
>                 *Dennis Putnam
>                 *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2015 5:38 AM
>                 *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>                 *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron Paul
>                 is Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt Romney is
>                 Wrong
>
>                  
>
>                 Hmm. A country that has vowed to kill us all is called
>                 a "stretch" when I use the term self-defense. You
>                 reinforce my assertion of convoluted logic.
>
>                 On 8/20/2015 6:04 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>                     We rationalize a lot with the stretch of “self
>                     defense”.  And yes, I choose the word ”stretch”
>                     both carefully and deliberately.  I won’t go
>                     there.  It’s an argument neither of us can win. 
>                     And again, the question manifests the philosophy
>                     of all or nothing.  I believe that such a view is
>                     an error.
>
>                      
>
>                     *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>                     <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>                     [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf Of
>                     *Dennis Putnam
>                     *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:48 PM
>                     *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>                     *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why Ron
>                     Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and RINO Mitt
>                     Romney is Wrong
>
>                      
>
>                     Convoluted logic at best. You seem to be making a
>                     moral equivalency between self defense and acts of
>                     murder. Where are we showing willingness to kill
>                     other than in self defense?
>
>                     On 8/20/2015 5:20 PM, Stephen A. Frye wrote:
>
>                         I agree with the underlying principle of your
>                         post.  At the same time, I question our
>                         willingness – and even lust – to spend money
>                         to take life, but balk at spending to save it
>                         or better it.  We’re an odd species.  We fight
>                         very hard for our right to kill each other.
>
>                          
>
>                         *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com
>                         <mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com>
>                         [mailto:rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com] *On Behalf
>                         Of *Steven Laib
>                         *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:54 AM
>                         *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com
>                         <mailto:rushtalk at csdco.com>
>                         *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] George Will on Why
>                         Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and
>                         RINO Mitt Romney is Wrong
>
>                          
>
>                         The problem is that if we weren't spending
>                         horrendous amounts of money on social welfare
>                         then the budget would not be anywhere near as
>                         troubled by the military spending.
>                         IMO, Military spending is constitutionally
>                         mandated.  Social welfare is not and may not
>                         even be permitted. 
>
>                         Just my two cents.
>
>                         SDL
>
>                         On 8/17/15 11:00 PM, Carl Spitzer wrote:
>
>
>                              
>                             *George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right
>                             About Foreign Policy and Mitt Romney is Wrong*
>                             /Writes/George Will:
>
>                             Few things so embitter a nation as
>                             squandered valor, hence Americans, with
>                             much valor spent there, want Iraq to
>                             master its fissures. But with America in
>                             the second decade of its longest war, the
>                             probable Republican nominee is promising
>                             to extend it indefinitely.
>
>                             Mitt Romney opposes negotiations with the
>                             Taliban while they “are killing our
>                             soldiers.” Which means: No negotiations
>                             until the war ends, when there will be
>                             nothing about which to negotiate…
>
>                             *The U.S. defense budget is about 43% of
>                             the world’s total military spending ­ more
>                             than the combined defense spending of the
>                             next 17 nations*, many of which are U.S.
>                             allies. *Are Republicans really going to
>                             warn voters that America will be imperiled
>                             if the defense budget is cut 8% from
>                             projections over the next decade? In 2017,
>                             defense spending would still be more than
>                             that of the next 10 countries.*
>
>                             *Do Republicans think it is premature to
>                             withdraw up to 7,000 troops from Europe
>                             two decades after the Soviet Union’s
>                             death?*About 73,000 will remain, most of
>                             them in prosperous, pacific, largely
>                             unarmed and utterly unthreatened Germany.
>                             Why do so many remain?
>
>                             *Since 2001, the United States has waged
>                             war in three nations, and some Republicans
>                             appear ready to bring the total to five,
>                             adding Iran and Syria.*(/The Weekly
>                             Standard/, of neoconservative bent,
>                             regrets that Obama “is reluctant to
>                             intervene to oust Iran’s closest ally,
>                             Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.”) *GOP
>                             critics say Obama’s proposed defense cuts
>                             will limit America’s ability to engage in
>                             troop-intensive nation-building. Most
>                             Americans probably say: Good…*
>
>                             Romney says: “It is unacceptable for Iran
>                             to have a nuclear weapon…” (Leon) Panetta
>                             says Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is
>                             “unacceptable” and “a red line for us” and
>                             if “we get intelligence that they are
>                             proceeding with developing a nuclear
>                             weapon, then we will take whatever steps
>                             necessary to stop it.”
>
>                             *What, then, is the difference between
>                             Romney and Obama regarding Iran?*
>
>                             *Osama bin Laden and many other
>                             “high-value targets” are dead, the drone
>                             war is being waged more vigorously than
>                             ever, and Guantanamo is still open,*so
>                             Republicans can hardly say Obama has
>                             implemented dramatic and dangerous
>                             discontinuities regarding
>                             counterterrorism. Obama says that even
>                             with his proposed cuts, the defense budget
>                             would increase at about the rate of
>                             inflation through the next decade.
>
>                             *Republicans who think America is being
>                             endangered by “appeasement” and military
>                             parsimony have worked that pedal on their
>                             organ quite enough.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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