[Rushtalk] Why Is Socialism Still Popular?

John Quayle blueoval57 at verizon.net
Tue May 29 14:19:03 MDT 2018


On 5/29/2018 1:55 PM, Stephen Frye wrote:
>
> I am not condemning anybody.  Not my job.  But I do indeed understand 
> a lot of what many think and believe about Christians.  It is not 
> anecdotal.  Suppose for a second (and it is NOT the case), that one 
> had only access to this discussion group. How often have we cited 
> passages from the Quran that seem to incite violence and then hold 
> that against those that believe in the Quran, yet, at the same time, 
> how often do we cite passages in Holy Scripture that justify anger, 
> war, hatred, division, etc, while continually overlooking passages 
> that scream for love and forgiveness.  That is seen by many, including 
> me, as hypocritical.  How often do we write “they” need to do this, 
> “they” need to do that, “they”, “they”.  When in reality, I believe 
> “we all”.
>
/*Stephen, I've read the Qu'ran. Where in the Bible does it call for 
followers of Christ to kill "unbelievers?" It does it the Qu'ran! It 
calls for them to behead people! 
<https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/isis-beheading-quran-command/2014/09/03/id/592381/>*/
>
> Many also see some of the brutal history of Christianity.  The Spanish 
> missionaries refused medical care and even food to native Americans 
> unless they converted.  In many of the mission areas here in Southern 
> California, the missionaries cut off the earlobes of the 
> “non-believers”.  Some of the missionaries who did this were canonized.
>
/*God is love and Christ said, "I am the new covenant." Nowhere in the 
NT does it call for actions such as these! */
>
> I am a frim believer in “I can’t do such-and-such because of my 
> religion.”  But I am 100% against “YOU can’t do such-and-such because 
> of MY religion.”  I won’t tolerate that from Islam, why should anyone 
> tolerate it from me? That is not anecdotal.
>
/*Where do you stand on living by the tenets of your _OWN_ faith? IOWs, 
would you deny a fellow Catholic the Eucharist if they were pro-choice 
or voted that way, knowingly? */
>
> And it is why we are losing so very many of our young people.  We are 
> in an era where knowledge is growing exponentially, and a lot of our 
> young people are asking questions for which we don’t have very good 
> answers, or for which our answers don’t make much sense.  We preach 
> science, science, science against global warming and so many other 
> issues, but then deny science if it conflicts with our religious 
> beliefs. Many see this as hypocritical.  I do, too.
>
/**//*FWIW, global warming has been a bogeyman used since Abe Lincoln 
was President! We're still here, are we not? Hiroshima and Nagasaki are 
(arguably) the worst environmental hazards in the history of man. 
<https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/aug/06/after-the-atomic-bomb-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-then-and-now-in-pictures>. 
Dixy Lee Ray once said that "man could never destroy the earth, since 
man did not create it." She was a NASA scientist. When are we going to 
reach doomsday? I don't see that ever happening...............am I 
wrong? In Pennsylvania, we have to pay extra for a custom-blended, 
supposedly lower carbon gasoline. I see no environmental improvement, 
whatsoever. It's a complete hoax! */
>
> I don’t believe that God’s plan for us has changed over the 
> centuries.  I do, though, believe that our understanding and our grasp 
> of that plan can indeed change.  None of us truly knows the mind of 
> God.  We can guess at it from the writings in Holy Scripture, but we 
> need to keep those in context, too.  Most of believe that Scripture is 
> the inspired word of God.  But we have no proof of that.  The Bible 
> claims its own authenticity, but no other writing could acceptably do 
> that.  But as a believer in the Holy Inspiration, I also maintain that 
> the writings were not dictated.  Human beings wrote the Scripture down 
> in words that they understood from thoughts that they understood, 
> directed towards people with the same limited understanding of the 
> Universe.  Let’s face it, Genesis simply could not have tried to 
> scientifically explain the Big Bang.  Neither the writer nor the 
> reader would have had the vocabulary or understanding to do so.  So we 
> need to take those ancient writings and try to apply them to the 
> knowledge we have today.  What is my point?  Many of us refuse to do 
> that, and our young people won’t accept these ancient writings in 
> light of what we know today.  Many adults won’t either.  And instead 
> of trying to realistically apply those incredible thoughts to today’s 
> world, we try to hold to the ancient meanings and accountabilities.  
> And so we alienate many, many people.
>
> We condemn homosexuality because “it says so in the Bible”.  It also 
> says men shouldn’t have long hair.  It also says we shouldn’t work on 
> the Sabbath.  It says a lot of other things, and we weasel around them 
> with explanations, justifications, interpretations, etc., but we pick 
> a few and hold to the literal words, and we try to force everyone else 
> to do the same things.  I get tempted to rebel against that, too.  
> When was younger and had hair, it was ling.
>
/*Christ had long hair (and so did I when I was young, but I am fairly 
bald now). Scripture also says not to have tattoos (which I don't - I 
have scars, which are God's tattoos), but people have them all over. */
>
> I both worked and patronized businesses on the sabbath.  I eat shrimp, 
> crab, lobster.  I eat pork.
>
> I don’t consider any of this sinful.  Yet Scripture is pretty clear on 
> it, and I can understand that a lot of people see this as hypocritical.
>
> And my point to all of this, is that in my eyes, and in the eyes of 
> many, I tend to see Christianity and Holy Scripture used as a weapon 
> or means of condemnation of others, rather than taking the passages of 
> love and tolerance a and forgiveness and use them as a means of 
> attraction.  For my own self, that is the message I get from Scripture 
> and the life of Jesus.  I read “here is a plan, and I’d like to have 
> all of you be a part of it.”  We see what we want, and others do 
> indeed judge us by our actions.  That, too, is human nature.  So do we 
> want to be judged by the divisiveness we seem to read in Scripture, or 
> by the message of love and tolerance?  We seem to have chosen the former.
>
> I don’t agree with how so many seem to see Christians, but I do indeed 
> understand it.  And we have brought much of it on ourselves.
>
> *From:*rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com <rushtalk-bounces at csdco.com> *On 
> Behalf Of *Dennis Putnam
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:45 AM
> *To:* rushtalk at csdco.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Rushtalk] Why Is Socialism Still Popular?
>
> Perhaps you have a slight case of tunnel vision or using too wide a 
> brush. It is very hard for any Christian not be sucked into some of 
> the hatred, especially since a large part of it is directed at white, 
> male Christians. Weak as we are, there comes a point where hatred 
> directed at us becomes too much to bear so human nature is to redirect 
> the resulting anger back. This is one of our many flaws for which 
> Jesus suffered on our behalf. As you said we are not perfect vessels 
> and some have major cracks. But you are being somewhat hypocritical by 
> condemning your fellow Christians because of your own anecdotal 
> observations. As with humans in general there are good and poor 
> members of the Christian faith and the poor ones are those we should 
> be helping, not condemning. Indeed, even those that are only 
> Christians for one hour per week in church, do spend that hour. As the 
> old saw goes, church is not a refuge for saints but a hospital for 
> sinners. We can only try our best to follow Jesus' teachings and some 
> are better than others at doing that. None are perfect.
>
> On 5/28/2018 4:24 PM, Stephen Frye wrote:
>
>     Yu know, over the past decade or so, the only thing I have seen
>     Christianity and Holy Scripture used for are weapons. True
>     Christianity, and the true meaning of the Holy writings live in
>     our hearts, and should always be visible to others.  None among us
>     will ever be perfect vessels or examples, but don’t we need to at
>     least try?  Our country is so full of hatred right now.  Such is
>     both saddening and sickening, and where will it end?  How many of
>     us will rally to answer that questions with “as soon as somebody
>     else does something”?
>
>     I volunteer for an organization that gathers and distributes food
>     for the needy.  Great.  But when spending more and more time with
>     them, I believe a lot of them miss the boat, too.  So very much of
>     what we witness in our day-to-day lives is nothing more than lip
>     service to the true meaning of Christianity and Holy Scripture. 
>     Other than  an hour a week in Church, how many of us, in our
>     day-to-day lives, are recognizable as Christians – not by what we
>     say we are, not by pointing fingers of condemnation of others, but
>     by how we behave?  How many of us even begin to live up to “And
>     they’ll know we are Christians …”.
>
>     We pat ourselves on the back for going to church every Sunday, and
>     for following Scripture and the teachings of Jesus, while we
>     viciously attack and demonize any who aren’t totally in line with
>     what we believe.  We can’t wait to climb up on our soap boxes so
>     that we can tell everyone else how they should lead their lives,
>     what they should believe, how they should act.
>
>     Jesus’ life here on earth, and the message of Holy Scripture was
>     never intended to be the vehicle of hatred and condemnation for
>     which it is so used today.
>
>
>
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